(September 22, 2019 at 9:16 pm)TaraJo Wrote: If I'm unable to understand something, it's because god designed me to not understand it.  

This is assuming that God "designs" things like a human designer. Is it that you're thinking of a kind of American Protestant sola scriptura literalist God? Christians have imagined very different things, too.

Quote:After all, if an all powerful god wanted me to have enough understanding to believe in her, wouldn't that easily be within her power?  Why would an omnibenevolent being create a being this flawed and then damn them for eternity for it?  

Since I'm not omnipotent or omnibenevolent I can't answer that. 

Quote:Either I have a serious design flaw or god is less loving than the new testament would have you believe.

Or you're not designed, or you're designed just right in a way you don't understand, or you're reading the New Testament wrong, or the New Testament isn't correct about God, or... many other possibilities.

(September 22, 2019 at 9:11 pm)Belaqua Wrote:

(September 22, 2019 at 9:09 pm)TaraJo Wrote: So, you're saying that the creation of a perfect god was created with a mind so imperfect that I'm unable to comprehend her?  Again, that seems like a flaw that she easily could have remedied.  Christians always seem to lack imagination when considering the potential of an all powerful god.

Or it may be that you lack imagination when thinking about a god. 

Maybe it would be different than you imagine -- not like yourself!

I’m now envisioning Jesus flying an x-wing and blowing up the death star!

Thanks, imagination!

(September 22, 2019 at 10:02 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: I’m now envisioning Jesus flying an x-wing and blowing up the death star!

Thanks, imagination!

Apparently the way it works is: first you use your imagination to dream up how things would have to be. And then you dismiss what you imagined because it doesn't make any sense. 

So now I guess you can start a thread on how X-wing Jesus is what Christians really think, and how that's silly. 

(Anyway, if Jesus had a rocket it would be a Cross-wing.)

(September 22, 2019 at 10:24 pm)Belaqua Wrote:

(September 22, 2019 at 10:02 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: I’m now envisioning Jesus flying an x-wing and blowing up the death star!

Thanks, imagination!

Apparently the way it works is: first you use your imagination to dream up how things would have to be. And then you dismiss what you imagined because it doesn't make any sense. 

So now I guess you can start a thread on how X-wing Jesus is what Christians really think, and how that's silly. 

(Anyway, if Jesus had a rocket it would be a Cross-wing.)

It works more like this: I’m being a smart-arse.

Though god as Darth Sidious does seem apt.

(September 22, 2019 at 9:16 pm)TaraJo Wrote: If I'm unable to understand something, it's because god designed me to not understand it.  After all, if an all powerful god wanted me to have enough understanding to believe in her, wouldn't that easily be within her power?  Why would an omnibenevolent being create a being this flawed and then damn them for eternity for it?  Either I have a serious design flaw or god is less loving than the new testament would have you believe.

Are you saying that you understand everything that you've been designed to know? I bet there's a lot of stuff you don't know that you were designed to know. How do you know that you are unable to understand God? Have you exhausted all means of knowing her? Maybe you were to designed to know her when she revealed herself to you. Maybe God isn't really what you think she should be.

(September 22, 2019 at 10:39 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote:

(September 22, 2019 at 10:24 pm)Belaqua Wrote: Apparently the way it works is: first you use your imagination to dream up how things would have to be. And then you dismiss what you imagined because it doesn't make any sense. 

So now I guess you can start a thread on how X-wing Jesus is what Christians really think, and how that's silly. 

(Anyway, if Jesus had a rocket it would be a Cross-wing.)

It works more like this:  I’m being a smart-arse.

Though god as Darth Sidious does seem apt.

Doesn't the new bad guy have a conspicuously cross-shaped light saber?

(September 22, 2019 at 10:42 pm)Lek Wrote:

(September 22, 2019 at 9:16 pm)TaraJo Wrote: If I'm unable to understand something, it's because god designed me to not understand it.  After all, if an all powerful god wanted me to have enough understanding to believe in her, wouldn't that easily be within her power?  Why would an omnibenevolent being create a being this flawed and then damn them for eternity for it?  Either I have a serious design flaw or god is less loving than the new testament would have you believe.

Are you saying that you understand everything that you've been designed to know?  I bet there's a lot of stuff you don't know that you were designed to know.  How do you know that you are unable to understand God?  Have you exhausted all means of knowing her?  Maybe you were to designed to know her when she revealed herself to you.  Maybe God isn't really what you think she should be.

Lots of 'maybe' for the ultimate intelligence who would know how to make things known at a level no one could deny.

(September 22, 2019 at 10:42 pm)Lek Wrote:

(September 22, 2019 at 9:16 pm)TaraJo Wrote: If I'm unable to understand something, it's because god designed me to not understand it.  After all, if an all powerful god wanted me to have enough understanding to believe in her, wouldn't that easily be within her power?  Why would an omnibenevolent being create a being this flawed and then damn them for eternity for it?  Either I have a serious design flaw or god is less loving than the new testament would have you believe.

Are you saying that you understand everything that you've been designed to know?  I bet there's a lot of stuff you don't know that you were designed to know.  How do you know that you are unable to understand God?  Have you exhausted all means of knowing her?  Maybe you were to designed to know her when she revealed herself to you.  Maybe God isn't really what you think she should be.

Lek, how do you know your experience was caused by god and not you? How did you reach that conclusion? If person A has an actual experience of god, and person B thinks they had an actual experience of god but it was just a delusion, is there any way to tell the difference?

(September 23, 2019 at 7:43 am)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(September 22, 2019 at 10:42 pm)Lek Wrote: Are you saying that you understand everything that you've been designed to know?  I bet there's a lot of stuff you don't know that you were designed to know.  How do you know that you are unable to understand God?  Have you exhausted all means of knowing her?  Maybe you were to designed to know her when she revealed herself to you.  Maybe God isn't really what you think she should be.

Lek, how do you know your experience was caused by god and not you? How did you reach that conclusion? If person A has an actual experience of god, and person B thinks they had an actual experience of god but it was just a delusion, is there any way to tell the difference?

I think it was God, but I leave room for being wrong.  I don't analyze everything that happens to me.  I could waste my life away trying to analyze and prove everything that happens to me, but it's more enjoyable to put it in God's hands and let it flow. Living is not a method. I don't believe in God because of that one experience, but rather a daily reinforcement of my belief.

Leaving room for being wrong is the first rational thing you've said.

We are growing on ya.