(October 12, 2019 at 6:46 pm)Little lunch Wrote: Nah, I was just kidding.
I agree with the author but I think people need to be careful.
I believe that a lot of people who are so called righteous and woke will just switch sides and be part of the new group that's calling out that bullshit.
The sad fact is that there are millions of people sitting at home, alone, behind computer screens, willing to follow the opinion of whoever has the most kudos or the least negative comments or whatever.
They will flow like water into the next brand of 'this is what you need to think to not be a monster' thought.

Even if you were joking, which I'm not convinced you were, there are plenty of people who do think that way, so we need to be careful about making jokes like that.

...

See what I did there?

While radicals exist in every social movement, religion, political view, I like to think that most of us are spread on the continuum, like most of us are not gay or straight, good or bad, male or female (reffering to the variance in what are considered masculine and feminine traits), introvert or extrovert.
What is really harmful is the Us vs Them mentality, which in my opinion stalls efforts made to change this because blaming or shaming don't solve a problem.
Especially with the raise of populism you can see how shaming failed, racist or xenophobic persons resurfacing in the right climate, given that shamin didn't make them less racist but just more private about it.
When I think about my political views I d like to think that I'm an utilitarian, meaning that I'll suport whatever policy that makes the most for the most people in the long term (but I don't see this as an absolut) while keeping in mind that we need to correct discrimination.

(October 13, 2019 at 7:31 am)notimportant1234 Wrote: While radicals exist in every social movement, religion, political view, I like to think that most of us are spread on the continuum, like most of us are not gay or straight, good or bad, male or female (reffering to the variance in what are considered masculine and feminine traits), introvert or extrovert.
 What is really harmful is the Us vs Them mentality, which in my opinion stalls efforts made to change this because blaming or shaming don't solve a problem.
  Especially with the raise of populism you can see how shaming failed, racist or xenophobic persons resurfacing in the right climate, given that shamin didn't make them less racist but just more private about it.
 When I think about my political views I d like to think that I'm an utilitarian, meaning that I'll suport whatever policy that makes the most for the most people in the long term (but I don't see this as an absolut) while keeping in mind that we need to correct discrimination.

It's bizarre to me that people believe that "deplatforming" people they don't agree with is going to solve the problem.

"I don't like vanilla ice cream make it go away, i no look at it, it not real"

It's moronic.

It also speaks to extreme lack of faith in the American people, and beyond, essentially assuming that if we give racists a platform, they'll suddenly brainwash the world and everyone will just turn into a mindless neo-Nazi zombies. It's nonsense. Of course, the far left liberal who will tell you that you, in particular, are susceptible to their brainwashing tactics, and even more so because you don't believe you could be swayed to become a racist, that they (the far left liberals) are in fact the ones who are truly immune. Everyone but them is just a couple steps away from throwing on a white hood and joining the Klan.

It's total nonsense.

Of course, they'll never confront this hypocrisy. They'll just act like it isn't there, like everything else they ignore.

Am I as concerned about the far left as I am about the far right? That's a good question.

The concern that does come from the far left, in my mind, is that they're pushing more and more people away from the left and more towards the right. Granted, if you aren't going to become a conservative, I doubt the far lefties could push you to make the switch, but they might push a person far enough to the right to get them to consider voting Republican. That's a possibility.

I see both the far left and the far right as reactionary to one another. The far left has dug their heels in the dirt, thinking that this "draw a line in the sand" type of liberalism is going to work, and the right has said, "Oh, you're drawing a line in the sand? Fuck you, here's Trump for eight years."

With both sides huffing and puffing and threatening to blow each other down, I suspect everyone is going to get dirty when the shit hits the fan.

(October 13, 2019 at 12:28 pm)EgoDeath Wrote: It's bizarre to me that people believe that "deplatforming" people they don't agree with is going to solve the problem.

"I don't like vanilla ice cream make it go away, i no look at it, it not real"

It's moronic.

It also speaks to extreme lack of faith in the American people, and beyond, essentially assuming that if we give racists a platform, they'll suddenly brainwash the world and everyone will just turn into a mindless neo-Nazi zombies. It's nonsense. Of course, the far left liberal who will tell you that you, in particular, are susceptible to their brainwashing tactics, and even more so because you don't believe you could be swayed to become a racist, that they (the far left liberals) are in fact the ones who are truly immune. Everyone but them is just a couple steps away from throwing on a white hood and joining the Klan.

It's total nonsense.

Of course, they'll never confront this hypocrisy. They'll just act like it isn't there, like everything else they ignore.

Am I as concerned about the far left as I am about the far right? That's a good question.

The concern that does come from the far left, in my mind, is that they're pushing more and more people away from the left and more towards the right. Granted, if you aren't going to become a conservative, I doubt the far lefties could push you to make the switch, but they might push a person far enough to the right to get them to consider voting Republican. That's a possibility.

I see both the far left and the far right as reactionary to one another. The far left has dug their heels in the dirt, thinking that this "draw a line in the sand" type of liberalism is going to work, and the right has said, "Oh, you're drawing a line in the sand? Fuck you, here's Trump for eight years."

With both sides huffing and puffing and threatening to blow each other down, I suspect everyone is going to get dirty when the shit hits the fan.

That is hard to read could you edit out the gaps.

(October 13, 2019 at 8:05 pm)notimportant1234 Wrote: You know what is the biggest flaw of radicalism? Radicals don't really get anything from debate. For example, I started a forum about processed meats a few days ago ( not a vegetarian or a vegan) and a regular poster on the forum argued that taxing sugar and processed meat could lead to malnutrition. Even if it is not economically true, it is a point of view that should be taken into consideration, if I was a radical probably I would say something like : " Fuck you meat eating murderer".

Although I'm not from the U.S., I can relate to how some people can push others on the wrong path with childish beliefes. For example, some members of the opposition in the parliament in my country ( Romania) are betting on completely free markets, while I, after I read Thinking Fast and Slow, consider that anything that lacks regulation will lead to something bad. Not because we are bad but just because we don't know better and if in the U.S. pushing someone in a different political view means a shitty president in Romania it means enabling corruption.

I agree. It's much easier to simply paint your opponents as, in this example, meat eating murderers, than it is to actually try to consider their point of view and take into account that they may very well have a nuanced, well-thought out opinion. If you admit the latter, then the person you're talking to might have a point, which means you might be wrong.

I totally agree though, radicals don't get anything out of debate, mostly because they outright refuse to debate, often times. They truly and utterly believe that they issues they believe in are such a given, are so common sense and unquestionable, that debating about them isn't even an option.

While this may be true for some viewpoints, if it's such common sense? Why not simply spell that out for your "opponent" and sweep them under the rug when you're done? If it's so obvious and so self-explanatory, treat your counterpart like a five year old - explain it simply and concisely and then be done with it.

@Succubus

Huh?

.. Deleted.. 

(October 11, 2019 at 1:55 pm)EgoDeath Wrote: https://valerietarico.com/2019/01/24/the...-same-way/

Great article.

Give it a read.

It’s a good comparison.

Though a few differences, for Christians all are sinners, not just some, it puts all humanity as possessing of this condition.

Secondly in Woke culture, the equivalent of sin, is used primarily for the sake of condemnation, in which there’s no coming back from. In Christianity the recognition of sin, is for the sake of redemption, transformation, to not be condemned.

You can be forgiven, return back to the community. In woke culture there’s no coming back.

(October 14, 2019 at 12:19 am)Acrobat Wrote: It’s a good comparison.

Though a few differences, for Christians all are sinners, not just some, it puts all humanity as possessing of this condition.

Well even many in the woke crowd will admit that we all have prejudicial thoughts; that our best bet is to fight against these thoughts and, most importantly, shut the fuck up and let the minorities of all types talk if you're a straight white male.

Though, that doesn't really mean anything in terms of behavior. Self-righteous Christians posture over other Christians all the time - mostly about how much more godly and Christian they are.

(October 14, 2019 at 12:19 am)Acrobat Wrote: Secondly in Woke culture, the equivalent of sin, is used primarily for the sake of condemnation, in which there’s no coming back from. In Christianity the recognition of sin, is for the sake of redemption, transformation, to not be condemned.

You can be forgiven, return back to the community. In woke culture there’s no coming back.

If anything, this reflects poorly on Christianity. Not all people deserve forgiveness; child molesters and serial killers come to mind. And still, I'd imagine many a Christian would refuse to let someone like that back into their church, regardless of how much god supposedly forgave the person.

Hell, some churches wouldn't even let a guy who looked like Jesus supposedly looked through the front doors.

Honestly, they’re just the two biggest cultural forces who build themselves around a little something I like to call The Dexter Hypothesis. People, by and large, really want a good excuse to be assholes, and those are two schools of thought/subcultures/communities who fucking thrive on it, because they provide a well-defined other who do things so beneath contempt that damn near anything you can do against them can be potentially justifiable, whether it’s evangelicals who hate any aspect of modern life that wouldn’t have been on Leave it to Beaver because it’s ruining America, or woke people seething with contempt towards the racist, patriarchal, heterosexist power structures that, to be fair, do a shitton of damage, or even some celebrity who they’ve heard has done something bad, you have a damn powerful enemy who needs to be destroyed. And while they don’t have the resources to track, kill, and dispose of predators with impunity, deep down, you know there’s some part of them that sees themselves like this for whatever they do (even if it’s just being an asshole on social media):



Of course, This could just be me being a cynical asshole, but this is just what I see.