(December 1, 2019 at 2:54 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

Quote:I don't need to once I know mine is true.

Well, you don't 'know' that Islam is true, you merely believe it to be so.  In this sense, Islam is no different than every other religion - you've all got the equal arrogance of assuming that you and only you are possessors of some mighty, revealed Truth.

I'll take my provisional atheism over your imagined certitude any day of the week.

Boru

Their religion is “true” and all others “false” according to the followers of any religion.

And that breaks down to the denominations in the same religion as well.

I know a joho (a cousin, in fact) who loves having mormons knock on her door so she can “prove” her religion right and theirs wrong.

(December 1, 2019 at 2:54 pm)Bri anSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

Quote:I don't need to once I know mine is true.

Well, you don't 'know' that Islam is true, you merely believe it to be so.  In this sense, Islam is no different than every other religion - you've all got the equal arrogance of assuming that you and only you are possessors of some mighty, revealed Truth.

I'll take my provisional atheism over your imagined certitude any day of the week.

Boru

Yeah, any religion is no different than any other religion. Judge is tired to look at what each defendant has to say .. gave'em all the death penalty! Great reasoning.

Islam is the only religion that makes any kind of challenge to people who don't believe in it. Monotheism is a much more respectable position than turning your back to the innumerable signs of purpose in this world and lazily claim you saw no evidence.

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(December 1, 2019 at 12:25 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Total submission to a celestial dictator through a short life and then for eternity.

No thanks.

Clearly Mr. Hitchens made you all allergic to submission. Refusing to worship just because it doesn't massage your ego is the utmost form of arrogance all religions throughout history condemned.

(December 1, 2019 at 3:13 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:

(December 1, 2019 at 2:54 pm)Bri anSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Well, you don't 'know' that Islam is true, you merely believe it to be so.  In this sense, Islam is no different than every other religion - you've all got the equal arrogance of assuming that you and only you are possessors of some mighty, revealed Truth.

I'll take my provisional atheism over your imagined certitude any day of the week.

Boru

Yeah, any religion is no different than any other religion. Judge is tired to look at what each defendant has to say .. gave'em all the death penalty! Great reasoning.

Islam is the only religion that makes any kind of challenge to people who don't believe in it. Monotheism is a much more respectable position than turning your back to the innumerable signs of purpose in this world and lazily claim you saw no evidence.

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(December 1, 2019 at 12:25 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Total submission to a celestial dictator through a short life and then for eternity.

No thanks.

Clearly Mr. Hitchens made you all allergic to submission. Refusing to worship just because it doesn't massage your ego is the utmost form of arrogance all religions throughout history condemned.

Nothing to fo with ego, son.

Even IF your god, the Abrahamic on, was proven to exist, which it hasn’t, it’s books, if true, show it to be a vicious, jealous, imperious being that needs the undying devotion of humanity to stroke its own ego.

Because of those traits it would be worth believing in but totally unworthy of worship.

Oh, and I felt that way BEFORE I read anything from Hitchens.

(December 1, 2019 at 3:47 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Even IF your god, the Abrahamic on, was proven to exist, which it hasn’t, it’s books, if true, show it to be a vicious, jealous, imperious being that needs the undying devotion of humanity to stroke its own ego.

It's not said anywhere that God needs our worship.

(December 1, 2019 at 3:47 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Because of those traits it would be worth believing in but totally unworthy of worship.

And the god you'd rather worship would have what traits exactly ?

(December 1, 2019 at 3:13 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:

(December 1, 2019 at 2:54 pm)Bri anSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Well, you don't 'know' that Islam is true, you merely believe it to be so.  In this sense, Islam is no different than every other religion - you've all got the equal arrogance of assuming that you and only you are possessors of some mighty, revealed Truth.

I'll take my provisional atheism over your imagined certitude any day of the week.

Boru

Yeah, any religion is no different than any other religion. Judge is tired to look at what each defendant has to say .. gave'em all the death penalty! Great reasoning.

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Isn't this precisely what you've done with every religion that isn't Islam?  You've decided that Islam is true, so you've stopped inquiring.  That's more than being tired, that's bone idle.

Quote:Islam is the only religion that makes any kind of challenge to people who don't believe in it. Monotheism is a much more respectable position than turning your back to the innumerable signs of purpose in this world and lazily claim you saw no evidence.

EVERY religion makes a challenge to people who don't believe in it.

Atheism is a much more respectable position than looking for things that shore up your already-held belief.  It's dead easy to look around you and say, 'Allah did such and such and so and so'. The hard work is to actually investigate things and learn the way the world wags and what wags it.

Boru

(December 1, 2019 at 4:11 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:

(December 1, 2019 at 3:47 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Even IF your god, the Abrahamic on, was proven to exist, which it hasn’t, it’s books, if true, show it to be a vicious, jealous, imperious being that needs the undying devotion of humanity to stroke its own ego.

It's not said anywhere that God needs our worship.

(December 1, 2019 at 3:47 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Because of those traits it would be worth believing in but totally unworthy of worship.

And the god you'd rather worship would have what traits exactly ?

If your imaginary friend doesn’t need worship, why does it demand we do so? Why would it create Islam which means submission?

It is amusing to me that such a powerful being would need worship and that anyone would do so eagerly and blindly.

(December 1, 2019 at 4:12 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Isn't this precisely what you've done with every religion that isn't Islam?  You've decided that Islam is true, so you've stopped inquiring.  That's more than being tired, that's bone idle.

No pal, I picked an answer, a very reasonable one. Since the remaining Abrahamic religions are essentially mutually exclusive with Islam, they are certainly and absolutely wrong in their present form. So inquiring further on this matter would be redundant.

(December 1, 2019 at 4:12 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: The hard work is to actually investigate things and learn the way the world wags and what wags it.

Boru

How the world wags is a separate question. If Jim closed the door because I asked him so, we know who closed the door. So I say thank you to Jim, without needing to figure out how the door handle works.

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(December 1, 2019 at 4:17 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: If your imaginary friend doesn’t need worship, why does it demand we do so?  Why would it create Islam which means submission?

It is amusing to me that such a powerful being would need worship and that anyone would do so eagerly and blindly.

Since an all powerful God allowed people who refuse to worship him to exist, he clearly doesn't need to be worshipped.

Worshipping god is for our own good if we want to free ourselves from all kinds of material pleasures which enslave our souls.

Quote:No pal, I picked an answer, a very reasonable one. Since the remaining Abrahamic religions are essentially mutually exclusive with Islam, they are certainly and absolutely wrong in their present form. So inquiring further on this matter would be redundant.

You're rejecting these religions because they conflict with Islam.  You really don't see the problem there, do you?  Furthermore, why did you restrict your inquiry to just the Abrahamic faiths?  Maybe the Maori have got it right.  Or the Zulus.  Or the Inuit.

Quote:How the world wags is a separate question. If Jim closed the door because I asked him so, we know who closed the door. So I say thank you to Jim, without needing to figure out how the door handle works.

No, it's precisely the question.  The explanation as to how things go (and, to a lesser extent, why they go) is learnt through observation.  You and other religionists are not interested in the facts, you're interested in interpreting the world in a way that supports a particular belief.

Boru

(December 1, 2019 at 4:42 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:

(December 1, 2019 at 4:12 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Isn't this precisely what you've done with every religion that isn't Islam?  You've decided that Islam is true, so you've stopped inquiring.  That's more than being tired, that's bone idle.

No pal, I picked an answer, a very reasonable one. Since the remaining Abrahamic religions are essentially mutually exclusive with Islam, they are certainly and absolutely wrong in their present form. So inquiring further on this matter would be redundant.

(December 1, 2019 at 4:12 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: The hard work is to actually investigate things and learn the way the world wags and what wags it.

Boru

How the world wags is a separate question. If Jim closed the door because I asked him so, we know who closed the door. So I say thank you to Jim, without needing to figure out how the door handle works.

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(December 1, 2019 at 4:17 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: If your imaginary friend doesn’t need worship, why does it demand we do so?  Why would it create Islam which means submission?

It is amusing to me that such a powerful being would need worship and that anyone would do so eagerly and blindly.

Since an all powerful God allowed people who refuse to worship him to exist, he clearly doesn't need to be worshipped.

Worshipping god is for our own good if we want to free ourselves from all kinds of material pleasures which enslave our souls.

Which is further indication thst it doesn’t exist.

So our souls can be enslaved by the celestial dictator?

(November 29, 2019 at 3:49 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: My point is that Islam really is misunderstood and non muslims generally don't make any effort to look up deeper, and not give in to what popular opinion says about it.

Have you read the Vedas? Are you sure you aren't a Hindu?

The burden of proof rests on whoever makes the silly claims. I don't need to make any effort whatsoever to ignore them.

Quote:the core belief makes much more sense than its christian counterpart

This is referred to as "Damnation by Faint Praise".

Quote:Islam says that love is earned, that one who claims to love God should really follow his path, and therefore anyone who consciously and willingly rejects his message -knowing its true- doesn't deserve to be loved by his creator.

"Believe or burn!" How original. Damn. Now I have to find a way to do less than nothing to disregard your morally objectionable nonsense.