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RE: [Quranic Reflection]: Quranic manuscripts from 1400 years
December 23, 2019 at 3:03 am
(This post was last modified: December 23, 2019 at 3:05 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Plenty of shitholes in a state of perpetual war have managed to keep ahold of books for a long time atlas.
I give you the entire western world as an example.
Meanwhile...as much as you may not wish to believe it, the quran is also the work of man. If that's a problem for one magic book, it's a problem for any other. Your call.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: [Quranic Reflection]: Quranic manuscripts from 1400 years
December 23, 2019 at 3:06 am
(This post was last modified: December 23, 2019 at 3:57 am by WinterHold.)
(December 22, 2019 at 9:21 pm)no one Wrote: ![[Image: icon_quote.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.trackie.com%2Ftrack-and-field%2Fimg%2Flayout%2Ficon_quote.jpg) AtlasS33:
In other words; if you wanted evidence for the existence of God observe the stars and observe the universe; and read the Quran.
By this logic, the Sorcerer's Stone is evidence for Hogwarts and Voldemort?
Not really; considering the very obviously organized patterns the stars obey -which humans knew from the dawn of time-, the cycles of the night and day and time's progress due to their cycles.
(December 23, 2019 at 3:03 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: Plenty of shitholes in a state of perpetual war have managed to keep ahold of books for a long time atlas.
I give you the entire western world as an example.
Meanwhile...as much as you may not wish to believe it, the quran is also the work of man. If that's a problem for one magic book, it's a problem for any other. Your call.
It's hard to imagine that the book crossed the Middle East to Europe then to the borders of China, without at least witnessing "a production of different variations of the text" at least,
The bible witnessed change as early as the First Council of Nicaea ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea 325 years after birth of Jesus -peace be upon him-), the Quran didn't just survive similar forgery attempts, but ancient copies of it survived too -as the OP said- proving that the content was never touched.
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RE: [Quranic Reflection]: Quranic manuscripts from 1400 years
December 23, 2019 at 4:08 am
(December 23, 2019 at 3:01 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: (December 22, 2019 at 9:20 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Following that line of reasoning, I could observe the universe, read the Bible, and reach a conclusion that invalidates your own. If you can use the same method for ascertaining what is true and arrive at mutually exclusive conclusions, then your method is not reliable, Atlas.
But you will be met by the flagrant verses in the bible, proving to you that the book -the bible- is the word of man, not God.
While the Quran is a total different cup of tea regarding explicit, flagrant language: it simply has no such language.
Now, wait a minute. A post ago, you conceded that the book, by itself, cannot also be the evidence the book is true, because that’s circular. You said the additional evidence is “look at the universe”. Well, anyone with a sufficient lack of scientific understanding can look at the universe, and think, “therefore god”, but the universe doesn’t tell you which god. So, now we’re back to books, and trying to use Quran to prove Quran. I don’t care how lovely its artistry is, you’re still begging the question.
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
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RE: [Quranic Reflection]: Quranic manuscripts from 1400 years
December 23, 2019 at 4:11 am
Proving that the content is untouched doesn’t also prove the content is true. Ffs.
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
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RE: [Quranic Reflection]: Quranic manuscripts from 1400 years
December 23, 2019 at 6:19 am
(December 23, 2019 at 4:08 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: (December 23, 2019 at 3:01 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: But you will be met by the flagrant verses in the bible, proving to you that the book -the bible- is the word of man, not God.
While the Quran is a total different cup of tea regarding explicit, flagrant language: it simply has no such language.
Now, wait a minute. A post ago, you conceded that the book, by itself, cannot also be the evidence the book is true, because that’s circular. You said the additional evidence is “look at the universe”. Well, anyone with a sufficient lack of scientific understanding can look at the universe, and think, “therefore god”, but the universe doesn’t tell you which god. So, now we’re back to books, and trying to use Quran to prove Quran. I don’t care how lovely its artistry is, you’re still begging the question.
That's why you must accompany the reading of the Quran with the observing of the universe, just like I stated in my previous post:
https://atheistforums.org/thread-60183-p...pid1949053
Quote:AtlasS33 said:
The Quran is not a magic book neither it is a book of spells. Without observing in what the universe gives or what life teaches with experience, the book is obsolete.
In other words; if you wanted evidence for the existence of God observe the stars and observe the universe; and read the Quran.
Ignore the artistry; the book is not a "magic book" or "the new Mona Lisa painting", rather it's the content it holds which provides a very logical explanation for the existence of God.
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RE: [Quranic Reflection]: Quranic manuscripts from 1400 years
December 23, 2019 at 6:56 am
(December 23, 2019 at 6:19 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: That's why you must accompany the reading of the Quran with the observing of the universe, just like I stated in my previous post: And when, after looking at the universe, you find out the book is wrong (in at least one claim)? What do you do?
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
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RE: [Quranic Reflection]: Quranic manuscripts from 1400 years
December 23, 2019 at 7:07 am
(December 23, 2019 at 4:11 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: Proving that the content is untouched doesn’t also prove the content is true. Ffs.
The First Folio (1623) contains 'A Midsummer Night's Dream'. It has survived several English land wars, the Great Fire of London, and the Blitz. The play has not been altered in nearly 400 years. Therefore it is true, and Oberon, Titania and Puck are real people.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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RE: [Quranic Reflection]: Quranic manuscripts from 1400 years
December 23, 2019 at 8:04 am
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
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RE: [Quranic Reflection]: Quranic manuscripts from 1400 years
December 23, 2019 at 8:09 am
(December 22, 2019 at 5:42 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: The Quran is an ancient book; Islam dictates that the Quran is the direct word of God, and moreover it dictates that the book was neither twisted nor changed through the years.
The Koran is merely an old book. There are much, much, much older books and writings.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: [Quranic Reflection]: Quranic manuscripts from 1400 years
December 23, 2019 at 8:31 am
(This post was last modified: December 23, 2019 at 9:34 am by Deesse23.)
Quote:AtlasS33 said:
The Quran is not a magic book neither it is a book of spells. Without observing in what the universe gives or what life teaches with experience, the book is obsolete.
In other words; if you wanted evidence for the existence of God observe the stars and observe the universe; and read the Quran.
(December 22, 2019 at 5:42 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: The Quran is an ancient book; Islam dictates that the Quran is the direct word of God, and moreover it dictates that the book was neither twisted nor changed through the years.
If Islam dictates that the Quran is the word of god, why would you need evidence?
If Allah gave us a book that is *obsolete* without collecting additional evidence, why is Islam then dictating that the Quran is the word of god? Should i become Muslim because i believe its dictate or because i have gathered evidence by looking at the universe? Is Islam about believing dictates or gathering knowledge?
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
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![[Image: Voyager_2_picture_of_Oberon.jpg]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/09/Voyager_2_picture_of_Oberon.jpg)
![[Image: 450px-Titania.jpg]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/42/Titania.jpg/450px-Titania.jpg)
![[Image: Puck.png]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/Puck.png)
