(December 23, 2019 at 11:00 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

Quote:I don't recall that Britain was invaded by the Mongols, or witnessed whole civilizations converting to "The First Folio".

The 17th century is also not the 7th century. I refuse the comparing of 17th century Britain's ability to preserve books to 7th century Islamic empire.

Utterly immaterial to the main point, which is that preservation of a document doesn't make that document true.

But if length of time is that important to you, do you accept the Gilgamesh flood to be a true and accurate historical account?  Tablets XI and XII recount this myth, and we have the original clay tablets.  Because of this, the story can't possibly have been altered.

The tablets are older to Mohammed than Mohammed is to us.  Does that mean they're true?

Boru

If the content of the tablet proved true. But the tablet contains content well known to be wrong and can be refuted in seconds.

The length of time is  important to me, but it's not everything.

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(December 23, 2019 at 11:47 am)Deesse23 Wrote:

(December 23, 2019 at 10:29 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: To make sure I'm not being fooled.
Because God gave us eyes, mind, ears...etc. The additional collecting of evidence through your senses is a must. This is how humans read.

No it isnt a must. Quite the opposite. Islam dictates so!
#1 Islam dictates that the Quran is the unaltered work of god
#2 You want to collect additional evidence to make sure you arent fooled by Islam
Conclusion: You cannot be a Muslim, at least not a True Muslim

It is a must; I can't imagine a person with disability like being deaf+blind+mute, reading the theory of General Relativity.
As to the points you presented; indeed the Quran is more than okay about people checking if it's the truth or not; look at this verse for example:

Quote:Sura 30, The Quran:
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#...rans=en_sh
( 6 )   [It is] the promise of Allah. Allah does not fail in His promise, but most of the people do not know.

( 7 )   They know what is apparent of the worldly life, but they, of the Hereafter, are unaware.

( 8 )   Do they not contemplate within themselves? Allah has not created the heavens and the earth and what is between them except in truth and for a specified term. And indeed, many of the people, in [the matter of] the meeting with their Lord, are disbelievers.

Quote:If Islam is true, then you should not collect evidence. If you collect evidence you cannot be a follower of Islam. If Allah tells you to collect evidence (by giving a book that is *obsolete* without evidence), then Islam is not accoring to the will of Allah.

But the Quran itself told me to observe and contemplate.

Quote:But the Quran dictates it is the unaltered word of god. If Islam is true, i should not collect evidence. If Quran is god unaltered word, then Islam is not following Allahs unaltered word

On a sidenote: What is your method of collecting evidence?

Fix your information. It did tell you that in 30: 6-7-8

(December 23, 2019 at 12:11 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: Beowulf is the oldest extant work in the (proto)english language.  It's contemporaneous to the quran.  There isn't a single place in the english speaking world that hasn't been invaded, burnt down, rebuilt, and invaded and burnt down again since it was written.  

Clearly, that means that grendel and his mother are super duper real, as are the dragons and sea serpents and the white hall.  

The meso-american temple complex's myths are literally written into stone monoliths, also contemporaneous to the quran.  The region has endured near total genocide and countless wars since.  Their gods and stories must be equally true, to you.

Or not..because you don't actually believe anything on the basis of the silly things you post here.  50/50 - I'm leaving just as much room for you to be as ridiculous as you make yourself out to be.

I'd rather see that very logical explanation...than anything you've ever posted to the boards, Atlas.  Anything.  Not because I;d suddenly drop to me knees and proclaim some fairy my master...but because it would help to establish that so many of the world's people aren't absolute cretins.  That they have some actual reason to believe what they do..even if it's false, and even if it wouldn't matter if it were true.

The questions that inspire the search for the truth for me are as simple as "what am I doing here" ? and "If God really existed he won't complicate matters for me greatly".

Both questions opened the road for me -and I hope they open the road for you; too- to find God.

The first question will take you to all kinds of literature claiming an answer; but the content of that literature always proves false or the work of man,

The second question's answer will be innate capacity when one sees the huge amounts of books and pages required to satisfy the claim.

For example, read the bible. You'll have to see the fingerprint of horny Roman religious men in many of its verses, as for the second question, you can try to read the thousands of pages Shiite Hadith and Sunni Hadith are squashing your head with.

I can't prove a thing; I'm a human not God. But I believe God put logic in the heads of each of us; the right course is clear from the wrong.

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(December 23, 2019 at 8:54 pm)Paleophyte Wrote:

(December 23, 2019 at 10:29 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: You use both. You look at the universe, and read the Quran.

Been there, done that. The book has bugger all to do with the universe. Nothing in it about GRBs or the expansion of space-time. Try some Asimov instead.

It's not a science book.

(December 23, 2019 at 11:44 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(December 23, 2019 at 8:54 pm)Paleophyte Wrote: Been there, done that. The book has bugger all to do with the universe. Nothing in it about GRBs or the expansion of space-time. Try some Asimov instead.

It's not a science book.

I'm glad that you finally figured that out. You might try just looking at the universe next time. No scripture required.

(December 23, 2019 at 10:34 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(December 23, 2019 at 11:47 am)Deesse23 Wrote: No it isnt a must. Quite the opposite. Islam dictates so!
#1 Islam dictates that the Quran is the unaltered work of god
#2 You want to collect additional evidence to make sure you arent fooled by Islam
Conclusion: You cannot be a Muslim, at least not a True Muslim

It is a must; I can't imagine a person with disability like being deaf+blind+mute, reading the theory of General Relativity.
As to the points you presented; indeed the Quran is more than okay about people checking if it's the truth or not; look at this verse for example:

You just admitted again that the Quran is in opposition to Islams dictate!
Islam dictates to take the Quran at face value and not check if its the truth.
Its becoming obvious to the observer that you are avoiding cognitive dissonance by flat out refusing that the two stand in contradiction.

(December 23, 2019 at 10:34 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: But the Quran itself told me to observe and contemplate.

And Islam dictates to take the Quran at face value. Who is correct Quran or Islam?

(December 23, 2019 at 10:34 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote:

Quote: On a sidenote: What is your method of collecting evidence?

Fix your information. It did tell you that in 30: 6-7-8

 There is no method described. Please try again, or describe your method in your own words.

Fatass getting desperate, I see.