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[Serious] Removing misconceptions of my path.
#11
RE: Removing misconceptions of my path.
Conclusions on Slavery

Aside from many verses advocating to free who is captive, freeing of a neck, etc, is the issue that war captives were meant to be freed or if the war didn't terminate they can be ransomed.  The malakat aymanihim refers to Marriage and Muta.  Hajar the slave of Abraham and Sarah, didn't exist and is a fabrication Quran doesn't confirm.

The Quran and hadith from Imam Reda (as) both refute the notion of slaves by the fact we are servants of God.

Will be moving on two


[2] Show expressions like "cut off their hand" "beat her" weren't literal and had specific meanings for example "cut off their hand" meant stop them from committing the crime some way or another, and "beat her" was in context of having sex, and literally meant continue having intercourse with her. We will also look at other possibilities of metaphors, where they have been taking literally due to history but not due to the context of Quran and other verses about the same subject. 
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#12
RE: Removing misconceptions of my path.
(January 5, 2020 at 1:14 pm)Mystic Wrote: What was to be done with war captives?

An easy way to advocate slavery is to say, there was no other way back then to deal with war captives. 


فَإِذَا لَقِيتُمُ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا فَضَرْبَ الرِّقَابِ حَتَّىٰ إِذَا أَثْخَنْتُمُوهُمْ فَشُدُّوا الْوَثَاقَ فَإِمَّا مَنًّا بَعْدُ وَإِمَّا فِدَاءً حَتَّىٰ تَضَعَ الْحَرْبُ أَوْزَارَهَا ۚ ذَٰلِكَ وَلَوْ يَشَاءُ اللَّهُ لَانْتَصَرَ مِنْهُمْ وَلَٰكِنْ لِيَبْلُوَ بَعْضَكُمْ بِبَعْضٍ ۗ وَالَّذِينَ قُتِلُوا فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ فَلَنْ يُضِلَّ أَعْمَالَهُمْ {4}

[Shakir 47:4] So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to be lost.


Two options:

(1)Free as a favor (grace)
(2)let them ransom themselves 

As for (2), it's only valid to do this while there is war. So (1) becomes an obligatory command if the war terminates.

This is the true way Islam advocates to have dealt with war captives in the past right there written in that verse.


Therefore, this verse not only does away with the need of holding them as slaves, it shows the proper way to conduct yourself with war captives and not to make them pay the price forever due to having gone to war with the Muslims.

Mystic, what I am about to type really has nothing to do with you, one religion, or one person.

The bottom line for me over the years meeting countless people is the same.

WE ARE ALL THE SAME SPECIES

You can argue words all you want,  but it will not change the fact that ride starts and ends for all  humans.

That says to me that what really matters, our should matter to our species, isn't our differences, but what we have in common in wanting our collective species to survive.
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#13
RE: Removing misconceptions of my path.
(January 5, 2020 at 1:33 pm)Brian37 Wrote:
(January 5, 2020 at 1:14 pm)Mystic Wrote: What was to be done with war captives?

An easy way to advocate slavery is to say, there was no other way back then to deal with war captives. 


فَإِذَا لَقِيتُمُ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا فَضَرْبَ الرِّقَابِ حَتَّىٰ إِذَا أَثْخَنْتُمُوهُمْ فَشُدُّوا الْوَثَاقَ فَإِمَّا مَنًّا بَعْدُ وَإِمَّا فِدَاءً حَتَّىٰ تَضَعَ الْحَرْبُ أَوْزَارَهَا ۚ ذَٰلِكَ وَلَوْ يَشَاءُ اللَّهُ لَانْتَصَرَ مِنْهُمْ وَلَٰكِنْ لِيَبْلُوَ بَعْضَكُمْ بِبَعْضٍ ۗ وَالَّذِينَ قُتِلُوا فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ فَلَنْ يُضِلَّ أَعْمَالَهُمْ {4}

[Shakir 47:4] So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to be lost.


Two options:

(1)Free as a favor (grace)
(2)let them ransom themselves 

As for (2), it's only valid to do this while there is war. So (1) becomes an obligatory command if the war terminates.

This is the true way Islam advocates to have dealt with war captives in the past right there written in that verse.


Therefore, this verse not only does away with the need of holding them as slaves, it shows the proper way to conduct yourself with war captives and not to make them pay the price forever due to having gone to war with the Muslims.

Mystic, what I am about to type really has nothing to do with you, one religion, or one person.

The bottom line for me over the years meeting countless people is the same.

WE ARE ALL THE SAME SPECIES

You can argue words all you want,  but it will not change the fact that ride starts and ends for all  humans.

That says to me that what really matters, our should matter to our species, isn't our differences, but what we have in common in wanting our collective species to survive.

Know when the Mahdi comes, if your people accuse him of being a sorcerer or possessed and controlled by demons when he performs miracles to the whole world,  your civilization will be destroyed like the Quran promises, not a city or town of those who reject God's signs will remain but be destroyed or punished a severe punishing.

Like Noah's people, like all other destroyed nations of the past, God's way will not change. And if there is only one believer to believe in the Mahdi like the believer in Suratal Yaseen- should he come - then the whole world will be replaced and that believer will survive.

It's upon God to deliver the believers from their oppressors and he has warned about the way God destroys the oppressors and delivers the believers in the past. 

The Mahdi we still hope will be a mercy for the whole world including the oppressive west but if you don't change your ways and he comes, and your leaders accuse him of being a sorcerer and your people follow them, they will be destroyed.

The most repeated theme in Quran is about the Qaim of the family of Mohammad. Of course, you will laugh at this, and mock, like past people mocked, but when the days of God come, there is no one safe but who God through his mercy saves.
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#14
RE: Removing misconceptions of my path.
I'm not sure this is the correct frame of mind you should be in immediately proceeding class.

Unless you're planning to preach.

Or you're looking for a way to justification of the actions in 1 thru 3 because you plan to perform them while on campus.
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem




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#15
RE: Removing misconceptions of my path.
(January 5, 2020 at 2:37 pm)Mystic Wrote: Know when the Mahdi comes, if your people accuse him of being a sorcerer or possessed and controlled by demons when he performs miracles to the whole world,  your civilization will be destroyed like the Quran promises, not a city or town of those who reject God's signs will remain but be destroyed or punished a severe punishing.

Your "god" acts like an insecure teen getting dumped for the first time. Anything that has to threaten mortals isn't a deity.
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#16
RE: Removing misconceptions of my path.
Quote:Know when the Mahdi comes, if your people accuse him of being a sorcerer or possessed and controlled by demons when he performs miracles to the whole world,  your civilization will be destroyed like the Quran promises, not a city or town of those who reject God's signs will remain but be destroyed or punished a severe punishing.
Your primitive simplistic bullshit will crumble to dust while our works will stand the test of the ages 

Quote:Like Noah's people, like all other destroyed nations of the past, God's way will not change. And if there is only one believer to believe in the Mahdi like the believer in Suratal Yaseen- should he come - then the whole world will be replaced and that believer will survive.
You will replace no one 

Quote:It's upon God to deliver the believers from their oppressors and he has warned about the way God destroys the oppressors and delivers the believers in the past. 
You are not oppressed


Quote:The Mahdi we still hope will be a mercy for the whole world including the oppressive west but if you don't change your ways and he comes, and your leaders accuse him of being a sorcerer and your people follow them, they will be destroyed.
 We will change nothing and our civilization will endure 

Quote:The most repeated theme in Quran is about the Qaim of the family of Mohammad. Of course, you will laugh at this, and mock, like past people mocked, but when the days of God come, there is no one safe but who God through his mercy saves.
Nothing will come and your kind will fade into the dust of time
“The sun from far gives life. But get close to it and it burns anything down to ashes”

[Image: flag-ukraine_1f1fa-1f1e6.png]  Heart [Image: canada-google.png]        

 “No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM


      
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#17
RE: Removing misconceptions of my path.
*sigh*
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”

Wiser words were never spoken. 
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#18
RE: Removing misconceptions of my path.
Islam sanctioned slavery just as any other empire built on slavery would, but so what? You don't, MK.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#19
RE: Removing misconceptions of my path.
Islamic countries condone and practice slavery now. Trying to claim otherwise simply won't wash.
Quote:I don't understand why you'd come to a discussion forum, and then proceed to reap from visibility any voice that disagrees with you. If you're going to do that, why not just sit in front of a mirror and pat yourself on the back continuously?
-Esquilax

Evolution - Adapt or be eaten.
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#20
RE: Removing misconceptions of my path.
If your god is too incompetent to tell us the simple difference between actually cutting someones hand off and "making him stop doing something", then i have no interest to waste more time looking into his other incompetencies.
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
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