He's in exactly the same position of power god is proposed to be in. His authority stems from the "power" he wields, same as god (call it hell if you like, or a gun if you prefer). This is all just sickening.

A choice is a choice, whether you are forced to make it or not. However, I will say that being forced to make a choice does take away free will completely. You do not have the choice to not make the choice, ya know? That is the essence of free will.

Fine Shell, now tie that in with deserving something and it takes on a whole different color doesn't it? That's their little slight of hand, avoid acknowledging the full weight and implications of their bullshit and hope no one calls them on it. I refuse. Ryft wants to argue that some choice was made and the results are deserved, good for him, now own the fucking bullet while you're at it because it falls under the same.

Coercion does not invalidate free will? Oh yes it absolutely does in the context that the faithful attempt to leverage the term in. Coerced into deserving punishment by the axeman himself, some choice, talk about a not-so-free will.

Now, is he saying actually deserved or asked for because there is a very distinct difference. I could jump from a burning building and have asked for my injuries by the choice I made, but still not deserve it.

Depends on whether you ask him directly about god or the man with the gun I imagine, though I fail to see how a distinction can be drawn between the two. Doublespeak. Let's ask. Ryft, does the man deserve the bullet? Ryft, does the man deserve hell? On what basis for either? Why argue that free will is in effect even under extreme duress? Because someone had to choose to go against the will of god, and this requires the ability to choose (even if he allows that for whatever reason we no longer have this same choice, someone had to have it at some point). Otherwise his god is a sick cosmic despot. Morally bankrupt and capricious, who punishes randomly for transgressions that could not occur. His myth would be stripped of its motor. Can't have that. So he wants to argue that point and avoid the gristle, this is unacceptable to me. Then to get so ballsy as to claim that he argues no such thing.......Unbelievable bullshit.

Ryfts god btw is more contemptable than the man with the gun, at least that guy gives you a choice, Ryft's god does not. You're cursed. It's not an issue of "your wallet or your life", not even close. "Your wallet and I'm going to shoot you anyway" is more fitting. His christian god makes other christian gods look like whining pussies. This god is almost the definition of apathy and facelessness. Nothing at all remotely human or compassionate about it. Completely unsurprising given the character of the man who initially invented this god.

Well, the distinction is not between hell and the bullet, as they are equal in this analogy. The distinction is between choosing something and deserving it.

I'd love to see the distinction made. Where is it? What is it?

Say I choose to turn myself in to the police after committing an unjust murder. I deserve the justice that I chose to have doled out upon me. Say I choose to jump off a bridge rather than get hit by a car. Do I deserve the aftermath? No, I do not, necessarily. However, I did ask for it because it is the choice I made. I could have been hit by the car instead. I realize that it is not an obvious distinction, but the word "deserve" has very specific connotations. Asking for something, choosing something and deserving it are different. It's semantics, really and I am sorry to nitpick. It's just how I see it.

No, sounds downright reasonable Shell, but the explanations offered with regards to free will (why we even need to propose such a thing) god, hell, etc, is that a choice was made, and we deserve whats happened because of it. Along with any other crazy ass shit you've seen in this thread with regards to god, free will, and heaven. The field is wide open for bullshit apparently.

Why does this explanation work for god and not the man with the gun? Why don't we deserve what we chose there?

Indeed, if the argument is that the bullet (hell) is deserved then I disagree. I do not think hell would be deserved for anyone. Murder being the utmost of all crimes and death being the utmost of all punishments, I would think anything after death is overkill.