(September 1, 2020 at 1:27 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: One of the major bits of the clusterfuck that is Kenosha...

This kid is claiming self defense -after killing a couple people and oddly enough President Trump seems to be going along with that.

...
My thoughts -

I have carried a concealed pistol - almost every day - for going on 20 years. I have not had an incident to date.

A big part of that is because I avoid areas where trouble might be likely to happen.

Like riots.

The kid is lucky I won't be on his jury - because I would likely go along with the prosecutor on this one. He could have stayed home and not been part of the problem. And - he should not have dragged a loaded gun into a riot situation. Trained professionals only do that as a last resort.

Were I the prosecutor - I would also go after whoever got him his rifle - because a 17 year old cannot legally purchase one.

He brought the fight to the crowd.

If the crowd had brought the fight to him - it would be a different story.

Quote:Saying we don't need you to is basically saying "We'd prefer you not. We have it under control." The claim often made though is that Zimmerman ignored instruction or a command. 

No made the claim he ignored and instruction or a command . But they made it clear they didn't want him doing it . You can move the goal post all day no ones falling for it . And Zimmerman is a murderer he killed a kid for not putting up with his bullshit .

Hi onlinebiker, mind if i ask a genuine question? I'm an Aussie and i'm trying to get my head around US gun culture. I understand that the pro-gun side of the argument is often misrepresented. If i was a woman working 2 jobs and forced to use a laundry mat at night, i might carry a gun too. I believe that those that do are statistically safer.

I've had a driving licence for 20 years and never had a major smash. However, i recognise that the danger is always there whenever i take to the road - i might seriously harm someone. Also, when i first started driving i occasionally drove after drinking. I still reflect on what a stupid kid i was - thank god i didn't have a gun as well!

Anyway, here are the questions and feel free to tell me to bugger off if it's none of my business. Aussies are nosy beggars.
1 - Does it ever weigh upon your mind how using your firearm might impact your life afterwards?
2 - Do you leave your gun at home with your car keys if you're going out for a few drinks?

Honestly, i'm just looking for some schooling here. I also have no idea what drives people who follow ice hockey!
Regards, god bother

(September 11, 2020 at 6:11 pm)SUNGULA Wrote:

Quote:Saying we don't need you to is basically saying "We'd prefer you not. We have it under control." The claim often made though is that Zimmerman ignored instruction or a command. 

No made the claim he ignored and instruction or a command . But they made it clear they didn't want him doing it . You can move the goal post all day no ones falling for it . And Zimmerman is a murderer he killed a kid for not putting up with his bullshit .

Killing is not always murder. Are you one of those vegans who calls killing cows murder too? What exactly does the word murder mean to you?

It certainly isn't, but in the specific case in question, it certainly was second degree murder. That's the utility of castle defense and bias. Getting people off on what would otherwise be second degree charges at minimum. There's no need to invoke a castle defense unless you're facing second degree charges, or worse.

(September 11, 2020 at 6:19 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote:

(September 11, 2020 at 6:11 pm)SUNGULA Wrote: No made the claim he ignored and instruction or a command . But they made it clear they didn't want him doing it . You can move the goal post all day no ones falling for it . And Zimmerman is a murderer he killed a kid for not putting up with his bullshit .

Killing is not always murder. Are you one of those vegans who calls killing cows murder too? What exactly does the word murder mean to you?

Murder is, in varying degrees, the unjustified killing of a human being. Zimmerman confronted Martin when he didn't have to, which makes the killing unjustified and - hence - murder. If Zimmerman had done what he was advised to do, the confrontation would have been avoided.

If I pick a fight with you and then kill you, it's murder.  If i pick a fight with you and you kill me, it's self defense. 

Boru

Florida's castle laws explicitly point out that if you create an altercation which ends with you shooting someone, you're still a murderer - and it's not self defense.

That's why the defense argued that their client was the one yelling for police help. Spoiler alert, he wasn't.

(consider the alternative, the "I'm not touching you" theory of poking someone until they hit you, so you can kill them...all justified like)

It was second degree murder, by the book - his own testimony condemned him on the merits. That doesn't mean much, though, because we don't use professional jurists - for better and for worse.

Re-read what I wrote.

Boru

(September 11, 2020 at 6:19 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote:

(September 11, 2020 at 6:11 pm)SUNGULA Wrote: No made the claim he ignored and instruction or a command . But they made it clear they didn't want him doing it . You can move the goal post all day no ones falling for it . And Zimmerman is a murderer he killed a kid for not putting up with his bullshit .

Killing is not always murder. Are you one of those vegans who calls killing cows murder too? What exactly does the word murder mean to you?

Killing a human being who should not be dead because you were too arrogant to not consider the consequences of following them instead of just doing the 911 dispatch "suggested " and fucked off home . If that's not murder i don't know what is .

(September 11, 2020 at 6:15 pm)god bother Wrote: Hi onlinebiker, mind if i ask a genuine question? I'm an Aussie and i'm trying to get my head around US gun culture. I understand that the pro-gun side of the argument is often misrepresented. If i was a woman working 2 jobs and forced to use a laundry mat at night, i might carry a gun too. I believe that those that do are statistically safer.

I've had a driving licence for 20 years and never had a major smash. However, i recognise that the danger is always there whenever i take to the road - i might seriously harm someone. Also, when i first started driving i occasionally drove after drinking. I still reflect on what a stupid kid i was - thank god i didn't have a gun as well!

Anyway, here are the questions and feel free to tell me to bugger off if it's none of my business. Aussies are nosy beggars.
1 - Does it ever weigh upon your mind how using your firearm might impact your life afterwards?
2 - Do you leave your gun at home with your car keys if you're going out for a few drinks?

Honestly, i'm just looking for some schooling here. I also have no idea what drives people who follow ice hockey!
Regards, god bother

No worries mate.

1. Yes. But the key to your question is "life after". You have to be alive to do anything - as we say here z "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6."

2. I don't go to bars. Haven't much since I got my concealed carry permit almost 20 years ago. If we do go to a eatery that serves alcohol - I become the designated driver. On occassion (twice I recall).I have handed the keys and gun over to the SO. She has a carry permit as well.