(December 11, 2020 at 12:40 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote:

(December 11, 2020 at 12:33 pm)WinterHold Wrote: Yes. The situation is very similar to real life: non-believers find another Muslim bellydancer and support him to be their proxy against the effective Muslim; just like the west does in supporting Egypt's SISI, Saudi Arabia's Sauds or Irani Shiites.

But believe me, one day this eternal battle will be over.

You know, the support doesn't have to be "real"; because the person you support is a bellydancing sick freak with no morals. But he is a good static to me, so why not support him?

Buddy, I was talking about you....not Kloro.  He's a nut too, sure, but at least he knows a little bit about how the donuts were made.

I absolutely understand and even agree with your objections to hadith.  Trouble is, magic book was produced in the same way.  If there's something wrong with that method - then something is wrong with magic book.

(December 11, 2020 at 12:52 pm)arewethereyet Wrote:

(December 11, 2020 at 12:33 pm)WinterHold Wrote: Yes. The situation is very similar to real life: non-believers find another Muslim bellydancer and support him to be their proxy against the effective Muslim; just like the west does in supporting Egypt's SISI, Saudi Arabia's Sauds or Irani Shiites.

But believe me, one day this eternal battle will be over.

You know, the support doesn't have to be "real"; because the person you support is a bellydancing sick freak with no morals. But he is a good static to me, so why not support him?

Here's what I get from this - bellydancing (sic) is bad.

Needs more ostriches.

(December 11, 2020 at 12:33 pm)WinterHold Wrote: ....just like the west does in supporting Egypt's SISI, Saudi Arabia's Sauds or Irani Shiites.

(December 11, 2020 at 12:52 pm)WinterHold Wrote:

(December 11, 2020 at 12:40 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Buddy, I was talking about you....not Kloro.  He's a nut too, sure, but at least he knows a little bit about how the donuts were made.

I absolutely understand and even agree with your objections to hadith.  Trouble is, magic book was produced in the same way.  If there's something wrong with that method - then something is wrong with magic book.

No, Mohammed wasn't there to testify that the Hadiths are really his word.
But with the Quran he testified (the link I gave showed it).

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(December 11, 2020 at 12:52 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Here's what I get from this - bellydancing (sic) is bad.

Needs more ostriches.

You must understand the difference:

1-Ostriches hide their heads in the sand and claim that they didn't see the crimes of others
2-Bellydancers are trolls with no morals; they bellydance around morals because they have none.

(December 11, 2020 at 12:35 pm)Angrboda Wrote:

(December 11, 2020 at 9:45 am)Klorophyll Wrote: The Qur'an is meant to be a rhetorical challenge. That's how it impressed Arab tribes back then and established its superiority.

So now you're claiming to know the mind of God and what his intentions were regarding the Quran?  I'd say that's remarkable, but it's really not.

(December 11, 2020 at 12:33 pm)WinterHold Wrote:

(December 11, 2020 at 12:25 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: This convo, in this thread, is delicious.  We've got a muslim who believes in the magic book so much that he thinks it contains scientific miracles..but he denies that the chain of claim and custody used to produce that same book is worth a shit.

Yes. The situation is very similar to real life: non-believers find another Muslim bellydancer and support him to be their proxy against the effective Muslim; just like the west does in supporting Egypt's SISI, Saudi Arabia's Sauds or Irani Shiites.

(December 11, 2020 at 12:56 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: He wasn't there to testify to anything after his death.  

If this is a problem, like the construction of hadith is a problem, then it's a problem of your own making.

Quote:[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunni]
Sunni and Shia scholars generally believe that the Quran was written down in its entirety at the time of Muhammad's death.[citation needed] Muhammad's cousin Ibn Abbas describes the way in which the final version of the Quran was fixed: "the prophet recited the book before Gabriel every year in the month of Ramadan, and in the month in which he died he recited it before him twice."[18] It is believed that the term "reciting the Quran twice" means compiling all the Quranic revelations into a complete and final version. It is understood[citation needed] that toward the end of Muhammad's life a special act of revelation occurred in which a final and complete version of the Quran was created. The term 'recite', which is used here, is referring to the custom where a Quranic scholar recites the entire Quran from beginning to end a number of times before a senior scholar. According to this tradition the act of recital is being performed by Muhammad, with the angel Gabriel playing the role of superior authority.[19]

(December 11, 2020 at 1:00 pm)Angrboda Wrote:

(December 11, 2020 at 12:33 pm)WinterHold Wrote: Yes. The situation is very similar to real life: non-believers find another Muslim bellydancer and support him to be their proxy against the effective Muslim; just like the west does in supporting Egypt's SISI, Saudi Arabia's Sauds or Irani Shiites.

Are you saying that you believe yourself to be an "effective Muslim?"  I'm just glad I wasn't taking a sip of coffee when I read that.