Pretty sure it's about the death of a star, you convinced me. All this judgement day shit is superstitious nonsense.

(December 16, 2020 at 3:36 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Pretty sure it's about the death of a star, you convinced me.  All this judgement day shit is superstitious nonsense.

But look at the chronological order of these events which science proved:
1-The moon gets dimmer
2-The moon falls into earth in the form of debris
3-The sun eats the earth with the moon's remains on it

Isn't that identical to the scenario in a Quranic Sura revealed before 1400 years?
Could an Arab who can't read come up with this story 1400 years ago, in this same chronological order?

And no post-hoc here; the verses are more than clear and the Quran was written in Mohammed's life proven in Carbon dating (proven by Britain):

Quote:The Birmingham Quran manuscript is a parchment on which two leaves of an early Quranic manuscript are written. In 2015 the manuscript, which is held by the University of Birmingham,[1] was radiocarbon dated to between 568 and 645 CE (in the Islamic calendar, between 56 BH and 25 AH).[2][3] It is part of the Mingana Collection of Middle Eastern manuscripts, held by the university's Cadbury Research Library.[2]

[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_Quran_manuscript#cite_note-UoB-2][/url]

At least we know when the judgment day will be: in 5 billion years.

Of course, if humanity lives that long they will move away the Earth with the Moon, and Islam will be long forgotten by then.

An arab who couldn't read could absolutely come up with some judgement day bullshit - not that it matters.... since you've convinced me that it's actually about the death of a star.

Gratz.

I am curious, though, why you think that someone being illiterate would have anything to do with someone writing or knowing about something that no one could have known - and that no one had ever written about? Did you work that one through your head..or is it just the general disorganization of your thoughts on the matter bleeding through?

(December 16, 2020 at 3:59 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote: At least we know when the judgment day will be: in 5 billion years.

Of course, if humanity lives that long they will move away the Earth with the Moon, and Islam will be long forgotten by then.

https://atheistforums.org/thread-62090-p...pid2015028

Quote:WinterHold said:

Note that all of this would happen on judgement day which is "the day of resurrection", humans will be resurrected from death with stronger bodies that can sustain very long duration of hellish suffering or eternal joy in paradise.

Meh, at least we're getting more specific. On page one, magic book said the sun would swallow the moon. It's gotten smarter since.

Now that's real magic.

(December 16, 2020 at 3:53 pm)WinterHold Wrote:

(December 16, 2020 at 3:36 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Pretty sure it's about the death of a star, you convinced me.  All this judgement day shit is superstitious nonsense.

But look at the chronological order of these events which science proved:
1-The moon gets dimmer
2-The moon falls into earth in the form of debris
3-The sun eats the earth with the moon's remains on it

Isn't that identical to the scenario in a Quranic Sura revealed before 1400 years?
Could an Arab who can't read come up with this story 1400 years ago, in this same chronological order?

And no post-hoc here; the verses are more than clear and the Quran was written in Mohammed's life proven in Carbon dating (proven by Britain):

Quote:The Birmingham Quran manuscript is a parchment on which two leaves of an early Quranic manuscript are written. In 2015 the manuscript, which is held by the University of Birmingham,[1] was radiocarbon dated to between 568 and 645 CE (in the Islamic calendar, between 56 BH and 25 AH).[2][3] It is part of the Mingana Collection of Middle Eastern manuscripts, held by the university's Cadbury Research Library.[2]

[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_Quran_manuscript#cite_note-UoB-2][/url]

I thought the sun was going to absorb the moon...at least according to the first post here.  Now it's a multi-step operation where the moon falls into the earth and then the sun eats the earth.  Is there a new translation with each reading?

It's like a galactic turducken at this point.

Or just a bigger, layered pile of shit.

(December 16, 2020 at 8:38 am)WinterHold Wrote:

(December 14, 2020 at 11:07 pm)Paleophyte Wrote: Eclipse and zombies. Stolen from the Christians. Or more accurately, stolen from the same credulous pagans that the Christians stole it from.

You can tell that it has nothing to do with the Earth-Moon system being engulfed by the Sun billions of years from now as it becomes a red giant by the verse immediately before it. "And the moon is dimmed" is precisely the opposite of what would happen as the Sun expanded to engulf it.

The events in the order of the verses speak about what happens in the day of judgement (see verse 1):
1- The moon is dimmed (verse 8)
2-The moon and the sun joining (verse 9)

This is identical to the scientific explanation:

No, it really isn't. It is superficially similar to certain aspects of the scientific explanation once you've done some post hoc cherry picking and misinterpretation.

Quote:When the sun becomes a red giant, automatically the light from the moon will be dimmed because the light from the sun will be massive + both the earth and the moon will be so close from the sun. So massive that a celestial body that reflects the sun's light will be insignificant.

No it won't. First, the moon would not be getting dimmer, the sun would be getting brighter. The moon would not be dimmed. Second, and more importantly, the moon shines by reflected light. That means that as the sun gets brighter so does the moon. This is the opposite of what verse 8 says. Thank you for using modern science to demonstrate just how wrong the Quran is. Again. In case there was ever any doubt.

(December 16, 2020 at 5:54 pm)arewethereyet Wrote:

(December 16, 2020 at 3:53 pm)WinterHold Wrote: But look at the chronological order of these events which science proved:
1-The moon gets dimmer
2-The moon falls into earth in the form of debris
3-The sun eats the earth with the moon's remains on it

Isn't that identical to the scenario in a Quranic Sura revealed before 1400 years?
Could an Arab who can't read come up with this story 1400 years ago, in this same chronological order?

And no post-hoc here; the verses are more than clear and the Quran was written in Mohammed's life proven in Carbon dating (proven by Britain):

[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_Quran_manuscript#cite_note-UoB-2][/url]

I thought the sun was going to absorb the moon...at least according to the first post here.  Now it's a multi-step operation where the moon falls into the earth and then the sun eats the earth.  Is there a new translation with each reading?

It's like a galactic turducken at this point.

Or just a bigger, layered pile of shit.

1+1 = 2

But I can also write it as:

0.5+0.5+0.5+0.5 = 2

I can make it a very long operation if I wrote it as

0.1+0.1+......+0.1 = 2

Right?
That's why you should care about the conclusion; not about the steps. You mostly play the "detail" card to win arguments; but avoid the conclusion because it proves you wrong; so wrong, you only trigger a mirage to give the reader "the impression" that you know what you're talking about.

Bottom line: the conclusion of this verse is that the moon and the sun are joined in the future, and that is proved by science to happen.

Case closed. Conclusion is stated.

---

(December 16, 2020 at 9:48 pm)Paleophyte Wrote:

(December 16, 2020 at 8:38 am)WinterHold Wrote: The events in the order of the verses speak about what happens in the day of judgement (see verse 1):
1- The moon is dimmed (verse 8)
2-The moon and the sun joining (verse 9)

This is identical to the scientific explanation:

No, it really isn't. It is superficially similar to certain aspects of the scientific explanation once you've done some post hoc cherry picking and misinterpretation.

No post hoc. Read the verse again and realize that this was said 1400 years ago.

Quote:

Quote:When the sun becomes a red giant, automatically the light from the moon will be dimmed because the light from the sun will be massive + both the earth and the moon will be so close from the sun. So massive that a celestial body that reflects the sun's light will be insignificant.

No it won't. First, the moon would not be getting dimmer, the sun would be getting brighter. The moon would not be dimmed. Second, and more importantly, the moon shines by reflected light. That means that as the sun gets brighter so does the moon. This is the opposite of what verse 8 says. Thank you for using modern science to demonstrate just how wrong the Quran is. Again. In case there was ever any doubt.

It will get dimmer and probably humans won't even see it on that day because the red giant's light would be so strong and close to both earth and the moon. So if you will see the stronger light; not the weaker light.

You neglect that earth will be so close to the red giant, so close that it will swallow it later on. If our planet was faraway from the sun I might believe you, but never if the earth is proven to end up inside the sun.

look at the picture in this link again: (this is earth facing the red giant)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_o...far_future

Quote:Bottom line: the conclusion of this verse is that the moon and the sun are joined in the future, and that is proved by science to happen.

But the verse doesn't say that the moon and the sun are 'joined'. It says they are 'brought together'.  Not the same thing at all.

You might have a better case if the verse said something along the lines of, 'And the Sun will grow to a great size and will devour the moon'. But it doesn't, so you don't.

That's the thing about Abrahamic prophecies - they're either dead wrong or so bloody vague that you can shoehorn any expedient meaning into them you want to. Now, you take the Delphic Oracle - she said that Oedipus would mate with his mother and murder his father.  THAT'S specificity for you. Mohammed didn't do nearly as well.

Boru