(January 16, 2021 at 7:37 pm)bonbonbaron Wrote: I've never heard that distinction between ethics and morals before.

Take a class in philosophy, or seven.

What kind of stuff is taught in a seven class?

(January 17, 2021 at 12:20 am)Fireball Wrote: What kind of stuff is taught in a seven class?

Is that question or a quip?

(January 16, 2021 at 10:31 pm)arewethereyet Wrote:

(January 16, 2021 at 7:37 pm)bonbonbaron Wrote: I've never heard that distinction between ethics and morals before. I view the world through more of a lens of what works and what doesn't. So when I see other people benefiting from verbally abusing their peers into submission and getting the girl and all the cool friends, it makes me question the whole "morality is the way" paradigm. NOTE: That doesn't mean I'm going to go out and make other people feel like crap. I'm just questioning the moralistic viewpoint, that's all.

Bold mine - this sounds like you are pretty young, I hope you are anyway.  

Maybe some background....are you the nice guy who doesn't get the girl and hangs out with the not-so-cool other guys who can't get the girl?

Spidey senses tingling a bit.

And he’s evidently not old enough to figure out that verbally abusing peers is incidental to why they actually get the girl and the cool friends (note: the real factor is ability to radiate confidence, even if it is fake). And also not old enough to realize that trying to ape the sheer amorality but not even bothering with the confidence angle is a dead end that guarantees that he’s going to stay in the same position he wants to escape, with no company other than an ever-dwindling number of incel forums that keep getting banned because they’re a danger to themselves and others. At least as long as he stays like that.

(January 17, 2021 at 12:20 am)Fireball Wrote: What kind of stuff is taught in a seven class?

If you get to the 7th class, you are already a zen master and you cop crap like this!
(nested hypotheticals!) ... I think the true answer is to punch the teacher in the nose!

Life is never going to fair. There are plenty of unmitigated bastards out there, but they all look the feeble same sitting naked on a toilet trying to get rid of four pounds of crap.

As you experience the vicissitudes of life, you'll grow stronger. But always have self-respect, and don't allow yourself to be pulled down by the little-dick people. Keep your distance.

A long time ago in school assemblies, a certain piece of music by Val Doonican was frequently played: Walk tall (walk straight, and look the world right in the eye.) Never forgotten it.

Listen to that, then read Rudyard Kipling's poem IF. Then read it again, slowly. Then again, even more slowly.

Keep asking how you would judge your current self. You'll get there.

I think the type of morality you speak of is a part of human nature. It's something that you'd only overcome through learning about amoral perspectives through reading and practicing seeing the world in that light. Some ready-made philosophies come to light in that regard, Nietzsche for one, maybe Taoism. But as with anything that we're not built for, it can be a struggle. I've believed since high school that the Puritan moral that if you work hard in life you will be rewarded with success is just a meme intended to motivate all people to work hard, despite the fact that success will as likely not follow on the heels of such efforts as will. It's just a meme to get the group to behave a certain way, as if it were true, because the success of the few for whom it is true will benefit the species and reinforce the message for the rest of the group. But it's natural to believe, so I find myself going along with the Puritan imperative all the same, only pausing to doubt it in times of reflection. It's still compelling, even though it shouldn't be. I guess if there were one other piece of advice I would give then it would be to read a lot of philosophy. Having a lot of bird's eye views discourages investing too much in things at ground-level.

(January 16, 2021 at 7:30 pm)bonbonbaron Wrote: I would love to come out of this mindset and adopt another one more in tune with the way the universe actually works. 

(January 16, 2021 at 7:37 pm)bonbonbaron Wrote: I view the world through more of a lens of what works and what doesn't. So when I see other people benefiting from verbally abusing their peers into submission and getting the girl and all the cool friends, it makes me question the whole "morality is the way" paradigm. NOTE: That doesn't mean I'm going to go out and make other people feel like crap. I'm just questioning the moralistic viewpoint, that's all.

I noticed that you stressed this idea of how the universe/world works.  What would the issue of who girls you know decide to sleep with have to do with whether or not a moral view works?  In my experience, they're not doing any moral calculus on that one.  Is it a moral belief on your part that people are not getting what they deserve -the good guys not getting enough sex, the bad guys getting too much - that leads to these comments?  That would be asserting a moral view about a practical matter, not questioning one.

Hypergender, exaggerated sexuality, and emotional unavailable might get you laid - but that doesn't answer the question of whether they're moral, or whether a moral view works.

I think that the core of the objection - if it's to do with the above, is flawed. There isn't any action good or bad that makes a person more or less deserving of sex. That's a really subtle claim of possession, whereby a person gets to feeling that because they're a nice guy (whether they are or aren't, as a point of fact, immaterial), the girls around them are morally obligated to drop their panties - mistakenly perceiving an injustice in the world not because bad guys are getting laid - but because they themselves aren't.

All that set aside, if the question of whether or not something works -is- being reduced to whether or not it gets you laid - I wouldn't expect an amoral view to be any more or less useful than a moral one.

Perhaps you should consider taking up jogging, rather than any specific worldview?

Agree! You have a better chance of getting laid when you're out jogging!

Just about foolproof, honestly.