Is a line I hear from the well intended left, and I am a liberal. That line appeals to the middle class and working class for sure. But it isn't just about worker pay. Ask anyone and most people I would guess, even outside pay, is that a staggered schedual, where you work a morning one day, an evenening another, and overnight another, fucks with your sleep cycle. Most doctors will tell you to work when the hours your body is used to. So if you are a morning person, you should work in the morning. If you are a night person, you should work at night. If you are a night owl you should work the graveyard. But far too many giant corporations put the worker in a staggerd schedual position, and the long term effects are burnout and health problems. 

So when the left argues "thank unions and liberals for the 40 hour work week", that is incomplete and missleading. They are not wrong, but it is incomplete.  I agree that if one is working 40 hours a week, they should be able to pay their bills off of one job. But even with that, workers should have set scheduals so they are not thrown off in their sleep cycles. I hated 7-11 because it constantly would have me working mostly evenings or overnight. Then sometimes I would be scheduled for the morning, after working an evening shift even if not overnight. That fucks with you. The worst was working an evening shift, but not overnight, then having a morning shift the next day.

Sleep cycles are important on any job, no matter what shift you are used to. 

I myself have always loved working mornings. Even if when I had to be there as early as 6am. I hated working evenings and overnight, because I had no energy by the time I went in a following morning shift. Point is there is lots of lots of lost productivity in staggered scheduals. America needs to insentivize more set scheduals.

Not all businesses can effectively operate from 9-5.

Someone has to work the odd hours if you want things to get done.

(May 1, 2021 at 5:48 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Is a line I hear from the well intended left, and I am a liberal. That line appeals to the middle class and working class for sure. But it isn't just about worker pay. Ask anyone and most people I would guess, even outside pay, is that a staggered schedual, where you work a morning one day, an evenening another, and overnight another, fucks with your sleep cycle. Most doctors will tell you to work when the hours your body is used to. So if you are a morning person, you should work in the morning. If you are a night person, you should work at night. If you are a night owl you should work the graveyard. But far too many giant corporations put the worker in a staggerd schedual position, and the long term effects are burnout and health problems. 

So when the left argues "thank unions and liberals for the 40 hour work week", that is incomplete and missleading. They are not wrong, but it is incomplete.  I agree that if one is working 40 hours a week, they should be able to pay their bills off of one job. But even with that, workers should have set scheduals so they are not thrown off in their sleep cycles. I hated 7-11 because it constantly would have me working mostly evenings or overnight. Then sometimes I would be scheduled for the morning, after working an evening shift even if not overnight. That fucks with you. The worst was working an evening shift, but not overnight, then having a morning shift the next day.

Sleep cycles are important on any job, no matter what shift you are used to. 

I myself have always loved working mornings. Even if when I had to be there as early as 6am. I hated working evenings and overnight, because I had no energy by the time I went in a following morning shift. Point is there is lots of lots of lost productivity in staggered scheduals. America needs to insentivize more set scheduals.

Are you speaking just from personal experience, or do you have a source for staggered schedules causing health issues?

Boru

(May 1, 2021 at 5:51 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Not all businesses can effectively operate from 9-5.  

Someone has to work the odd hours if you want things to get done.

I know, and that is my point. Instead of running the worker into the ground, subsidize tax credits to the business so they can foster set scheduals.

The LAST thing businesses need is tax credits.

And you call yourself a liberal. Sheesh.

Boru

(May 1, 2021 at 5:54 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(May 1, 2021 at 5:48 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Is a line I hear from the well intended left, and I am a liberal. That line appeals to the middle class and working class for sure. But it isn't just about worker pay. Ask anyone and most people I would guess, even outside pay, is that a staggered schedual, where you work a morning one day, an evenening another, and overnight another, fucks with your sleep cycle. Most doctors will tell you to work when the hours your body is used to. So if you are a morning person, you should work in the morning. If you are a night person, you should work at night. If you are a night owl you should work the graveyard. But far too many giant corporations put the worker in a staggerd schedual position, and the long term effects are burnout and health problems. 

So when the left argues "thank unions and liberals for the 40 hour work week", that is incomplete and missleading. They are not wrong, but it is incomplete.  I agree that if one is working 40 hours a week, they should be able to pay their bills off of one job. But even with that, workers should have set scheduals so they are not thrown off in their sleep cycles. I hated 7-11 because it constantly would have me working mostly evenings or overnight. Then sometimes I would be scheduled for the morning, after working an evening shift even if not overnight. That fucks with you. The worst was working an evening shift, but not overnight, then having a morning shift the next day.

Sleep cycles are important on any job, no matter what shift you are used to. 

I myself have always loved working mornings. Even if when I had to be there as early as 6am. I hated working evenings and overnight, because I had no energy by the time I went in a following morning shift. Point is there is lots of lots of lost productivity in staggered scheduals. America needs to insentivize more set scheduals.

Are you speaking just from personal experience, or do you have a source for staggered schedules causing health issues?

Boru

No. Here are some rescent searches that confirm the long term claims I have heard over the decades from countless sources.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/article...53#summary

Although the article listed above talks about "a good night's sleep" that is missleading. What is most importent to the experts is to have a consistent sleeping pattern. So again, if you are a morning person, work in the morning and sleep at night. If you are a night person work at night and sleep in the morning. But try to maintain a regular pattern. 

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/10-...-important

The world now lives in a 24 hour economy. But long before the age of the industrial revolution and light bulb, humans were mostly stuck to day work. Most doctors do accept that 24 hour economy. Modern technology has allowed for evening and overnight shifts. What is most important is that you have some consistancy in that pattern, weither you are a morning person or a night owl. The most important thing to the experts is allowing yourself a consistant pattern.

No differnt than jet lag. If you travel to the other side of the world and you leave at night and your body is still stuck on local time, once you get there, your body needs time to adjust to the time you arrive in. 

Staggerd scheduals disrupt your body clock.

---

Other species are no different. Some animals are day hunters, and other animals are night hunters. But because of modern technology, humans have become widedly diverse in their sleep habbits. All doctors are saying as experts is that sleep is important, and a consistant pattern is important, no matter what your habbits/preferences are.

It's real obvious who was never in the service.


We worked 4 or 5 duty section.

4 section = 12 hours on (0600 to 1800) 12 off - then 12 on 48 off. Then 12 on (1800 to 0600) 12 off - 12 on then 72 off. Repeat.

5 section = same thing but 96 off instead of 72 at end of cycle.

Upshot - in 5 section duty you only work 9 days a month. 

When you're in your 20' s you can do it standing on your head....

I loved it.

(May 1, 2021 at 5:51 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Not all businesses can effectively operate from 9-5.  

Someone has to work the odd hours if you want things to get done.

Again, go read my prior posts.

YES the world is a 24/7 economy. Doctors don't deny that. What they are saying is that consistancy matters. If you are used to working in the mornings, you should be consistent in working in the mornings. If you are used to working in the evenings, you should be consistent in working in the evenings. If you are used to working graveyard, you should be consistant in in working the graveyard. 

There are enough labor in America to foster consistancy no matter what shift one works, morning, evening or overnight.

Odd to me is working evening or overnight. Odd to another person who hates getting up early in morning would be me. Humans don't have the same body clocks. There is no right or wrong as to when an individual likes to work, any hour of the day. But the experts DO say that regular pattern, REGARDLESS if one likes to work graveyard, or likes to work afternoon, or likes to work mornings. The experts agree, developing a regular pattern REGARDLESS OF SHIFT is important.

I have known pleanty of co workers who hate morning work, and love to sleep in. I've known other workers whom love staying up all night and sleeping in in the morning until noon or so. I am/was, until I retired, always a morning worker. Doctors are not favoring one shift or another. There is no wrong shift, just individual biological clocks that vary from individual to individual. The only thing the experts argue, NO MATTER WHAT SHIFT the worker prefers is to have some consistancy, regular hours/DAY OR NIGHT for that indvidual, so that their sleep pattern isn't disrupted.

Most people are incredibly adaptable especially if their livelihood depends on it.

Ask a new parent, especially a nursing mom, about adapting to changing hours.

Ask a soldier who has just pulled back to back fire guard or is in a hostile environment.

Ask a first responder about their hours.

Ask a medical student about residency hours.

(May 1, 2021 at 6:21 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: The LAST thing businesses need is tax credits.

And you call yourself a liberal. Sheesh.

Boru

It s possible to raise taxes on billionaires and not give tax credits to them, but the workers. 

I agree the last thing Jeff Bezo's needs is a tax break. But if we can subsidize the difference not going to the top, but to the worker, the owner won't be so quick to blackmail society.