That's a great post, Rev. You just can't beat comments like this from the man who best applied the framework of the country that he inherited and is usually considered our greatest leader of all time. Compare just a few of Lincoln's ideas against Trump and it looks a lot like you are comparing a great American founder against a typical old world demagogue.

In 1860 Trump would have been a southern Democrat.

In 1800 Trump would have been a Federalist.

In 1776 he would have been loyal to Kind George.

If you put Trump in any era of European history, he would have been comfortable with monarchs and dictators but would most likely have been humiliated and beheaded because he is so incompetent.

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BTW, it's no surprise that the only American POTUS Trump regularly praises is Andrew Jackson, another POTUS who abused and overstepped his powers and supported policies benefitting WASPs while punishing minorities for being minorities. And they both committed adulatory, too.

I think Umberto Eco did a very good job describing how to spot fascism.

1. The cult of tradition.


2. Rejecting modernism.

3. Action for its own sake.

4. Equating dissent with treason.

5. Fostering xenophobia (both internal and external).

6. Playing on class frustration instead of addressing it.

7. Obsession with plots and conspiracies.

8. Portraying perceived enemies as strong so they can be feared, while portraying the same enemies as weak so they can be reviled.

9. Equating non-violent measures with sympathizing with a perceived enemy.

10. Contempt for the weak.

11. The cult of heroes.

12. The cult of machismo, primarily in the forms of contempt for women and homosexuals.

13. Selective populism, in the form of promulgating a movement’s insiders as the voice of the people.

14. Use of a limited vocabulary as a means to reduce complex issues to simplistic terms.

I’d say the Trumpites got a perfect score.

Boru

I read his book, then bought one of these..

At this point, the only legitimate counter arguments to the claim that Trump isn’t a fascist that I can think of are that A) he didn’t succeed at totally dismantling our electoral system, and B) he never used the term himself. And both of those are weak as shit, especially the first one, and especially after January 6.

(August 22, 2021 at 9:00 am)Spongebob Wrote: I will admit that I didn't study Marxism at all during my formative years.  As a product of southern Christianity it was basically a taboo topic for me and later on I just didn't see it as relevant anymore.  But after the last couple of election cycles, it's become more relevant than ever.  I've done a little reading on the subject but I still don't feel well educated about it.  I'm curious what others know, want to know, any judgements on Marxism, just open conversation about it.

Let's just start with this, Marxism is definitely not what the Christians and Republicans think it is.

Here's the Communist Manifesto:

LibriVox -- The Communist Manifesto

I was surprised to learn that the Manifesto was not a book, but, a pamphlet.

While we have Marxism being mostly about promoting the proletariat, or working class, as the owners of the means of production. It was based in the first industrial revolution, so it basically had to do with the workers owning the very factories where they worked instead of being exploited by the bourgeois, who were at the time a somewhat newly developed class of people in Europe, who had to fight their own battles with the aristocracy to become a class of people who developed industry into an economic force. So where in the world does social health care fit within Marxism? It doesn't really. Marx was concerned with the way factory workers were being treated and compensated. Unions are certainly a natural result of Marxist thinking and the US saw great economic success during the 20th century when unions were at their strongest. Since then they have diminished considerably and workers have lost massive amounts of economic stability and wealth.

Socialism is about collective ownership of most everything and apportionment by ones needs. That's a far cry from any policies promoted by Democrats. And you could point to some policies that Republicans are fond of as being related to socialism, too. Farm subsidies are a good example. And all the subsidies given to large corporations, not to mention the scandalously cheap leases that big companies pay to drain public lands of their resources. What about trade policies that allow companies to move production to foreign countries? You know, the one's Trump hates. Those were all supported by Republicans and mostly still are even if Trump bitches about them. It's because rich people help rich people stay rich.

Ahemm...if you havent noticed Republicans are the working class party and Democrats are the party of the rich and the destitute.

(August 22, 2021 at 7:25 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Ahemm...if you havent noticed Republicans are the working class party and Democrats are the party of the rich and the destitute.

 You been drinkin'!? Like, a lot!?

(August 22, 2021 at 7:25 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Ahemm...if you havent noticed Republicans are the working class party and Democrats are the party of the rich and the destitute.

I won't argue that Republicans have fooled most working class people to vote for them, even though the GOP is the party of the rich.  This is not a matter of debate.  Trump brags about his riches while his blind followers cheer him on, despite the fact that he did exactly squat to get his money.  His rich daddy gave him everything and Donnie squandered most of it.  

Another large voting block Trump has is the poorest white people, man of whom are on food stamps.  They love for all the things he did for them.  And yet they are still poor and still on food stamps.

Quote:Ahemm...if you havent noticed Republicans are the working class party and Democrats are the party of the rich and the destitute.

In what parallel universe?

The Republicans are the party of the uber-rich and the capitalist class and they are the only group republicans care about 

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(August 22, 2021 at 7:53 pm)Spongebob Wrote:

(August 22, 2021 at 7:25 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Ahemm...if you havent noticed Republicans are the working class party and Democrats are the party of the rich and the destitute.

I won't argue that Republicans have fooled most working class people to vote for them, even though the GOP is the party of the rich.  This is not a matter of debate.  Trump brags about his riches while his blind followers cheer him on, despite the fact that he did exactly squat to get his money.  His rich daddy gave him everything and Donnie squandered most of it.  

Another large voting block Trump has is the poorest white people, man of whom are on food stamps.  They love for all the things he did for them.  And yet they are still poor and still on food stamps.

Republicans are for tax cuts for the rich and nothing else