Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: July 1, 2022, 10:57 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
How much influence does he have?
#21
RE: How much influence does he have?
(August 31, 2021 at 2:34 pm)tackattack Wrote: To answer the Op's underlying question. Yes you.. as an atheist could be used to fulfill God's will in a believers life. Typically that's covered in Ephesians 1:11-12 or more commonly Romans 8:28

How is that covered? Explain it to me, please. I could go with my own interpretation of these scriptures but it would be biased towards seeing God as a bad faith actor. So, tell me what these mean to you and how it relates because I'd rather not devolve into assuming what you're saying.

The question isn't "could I" it is "how": how does God use people to answer other people's prayers? Because I am concerned about the agency of individuals and why God can exert power on people in some circumstances (not every prayer is answered by a person showing up at the right time; sometimes nobody shows up).

Reply
#22
RE: How much influence does he have?
(August 31, 2021 at 2:22 pm)Ten Wrote: I thought of something on my walk today.

So, have you ever heard a believer tell a story about saying a prayer and then someone shows up right when they needed and they equate this to God answering their prayer? ...how'd he do that? Does God have influence over certain people? Can he puppeteer us to bring blessings to others? What if I am close enough to help someone (not even knowing they are there yet) but I ignore whatever spiritual prompting that God is using to influence me to go answer someone's prayer for him? Does he have a roledex of people that he tries to urge into doing his bidding? And does he just try each person until he finds someone who'll listen?

I thought agency was important to Christians, so, I'm assuming it's a prompting and not just outright possession.

God only answers one's prayers if one's Latin is good enough, which explains why God does not answer many prayers these days.
And without delay Peter went quickly out of the synagogue (assembly) and went unto the house of Marcellus, where Simon lodged: and much people followed him...And Peter turned unto the people that followed him and said: Ye shall now see a great and marvellous wonder. And Peter seeing a great dog bound with a strong chain, went to him and loosed him, and when he was loosed the dog received a man's voice and said unto Peter: What dost thou bid me to do, thou servant of the unspeakable and living God? Peter said unto him: Go in and say unto Simon in the midst of his company: Peter saith unto thee, Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And immediately the dog ran and entered in, and rushed into the midst of them that were with Simon, and lifted up his forefeet and in a loud voice said: Thou Simon, Peter the servant of Christ who standeth at the door saith unto thee: Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou most wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And when Simon heard it, and beheld the incredible sight, he lost the words wherewith he was deceiving them that stood by, and all of them were amazed. (The Acts of Peter, 9)
Reply
#23
RE: How much influence does he have?
(September 1, 2021 at 7:59 am)Ten Wrote:
(August 31, 2021 at 2:34 pm)tackattack Wrote: To answer the Op's underlying question. Yes you.. as an atheist could be used to fulfill God's will in a believers life. Typically that's covered in Ephesians 1:11-12 or more commonly Romans 8:28

How is that covered? Explain it to me, please. I could go with my own interpretation of these scriptures but it would be biased towards seeing God as a bad faith actor. So,  tell me what these mean to you and how it relates because I'd rather not devolve into assuming what you're saying.

The question isn't "could I" it is "how": how does God use people to answer other people's prayers? Because I am concerned about the agency of individuals and why God can exert power on people in some circumstances (not every prayer is answered by a person showing up at the right time; sometimes nobody shows up).

I personally believe God is in control of everything. He permits things according to His infinite wisdom and grace. God works through confirmation by other believers, God works in circumstance, God works by the urging of the Holy Spirit, God works by direct revelation and prayer, and all of those ways align with the Word of God and work for God's glory or it's not from God. 

I don't believe God sends little nanites into your brain to forcibly change your mind, but I do believe an all knowing God, knows that your decision to do X will affect those around you Y way and allow for opportunities for Z within your sphere of influence and that produces actionable cause and effect in people's lives. God can use your selfish or selfless actions for His glory regardless of your intent. Just like the story of Joseph. His brothers intended him harm, but it worked out for the glory of God. God is sovereign over everything, and while it may be predestined from His perspective it seems free to us, not that He controls our whims, but He uses both our good and evil for His purposes.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post

always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
Reply
#24
RE: How much influence does he have?
(September 1, 2021 at 11:45 am)tackattack Wrote:
(September 1, 2021 at 7:59 am)Ten Wrote: How is that covered? Explain it to me, please. I could go with my own interpretation of these scriptures but it would be biased towards seeing God as a bad faith actor. So,  tell me what these mean to you and how it relates because I'd rather not devolve into assuming what you're saying.

The question isn't "could I" it is "how": how does God use people to answer other people's prayers? Because I am concerned about the agency of individuals and why God can exert power on people in some circumstances (not every prayer is answered by a person showing up at the right time; sometimes nobody shows up).

I personally believe God is in control of everything. He permits things according to His infinite wisdom and grace. God works through confirmation by other believers, God works in circumstance, God works by the urging of the Holy Spirit, God works by direct revelation and prayer, and all of those ways align with the Word of God and work for God's glory or it's not from God. 

I don't believe God sends little nanites into your brain to forcibly change your mind, but I do believe an all knowing God, knows that your decision to do X will affect those around you Y way and allow for opportunities for Z within your sphere of influence and that produces actionable cause and effect in people's lives. God can use your selfish or selfless actions for His glory regardless of your intent. Just like the story of Joseph. His brothers intended him harm, but it worked out for the glory of God. God is sovereign over everything, and while it may be predestined from His perspective it seems free to us, not that He controls our whims, but He uses both our good and evil for His purposes.

Seeming freedom and actual freedom are not the same thing. Appearances don't substitute for the reality.
[Image: Fenrir-sign.jpg]
Reply
#25
RE: How much influence does he have?
In such a clockwork world, god doing things for his glory could only have an audience of one. I don't know what sense it makes to talk about peoples selfish actions if they themselves have predestined paths, or why it would be an issue for the cogs in the face of an all-controlling god in pursuit of it's own glory.

Perhaps those authors constructed a legend around the banality of evil - a persistent observation of the human condition. That those most intent to harm are often fuckups, that good prevails not because of the actions of good men, but fortuitously, through the incompetence and compulsions of bad men.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#26
RE: How much influence does he have?
(September 1, 2021 at 12:03 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: In such a clockwork world, god doing things for his glory could only have an audience of one.  I don't know what sense it makes to talk about peoples selfish actions if they themselves have predestined paths, or why it would be an issue for the cogs in the face of an all-controlling god in pursuit of it's own glory.

Perhaps those authors constructed a legend around the banality of evil - a persistent observation of the human condition.  That those most intent to harm are often fuckups, that good prevails not because of the actions of good men, but fortuitously, through the incompetence and compulsions of bad men.

For His glory, yes indeed, and why not?  "For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence." - Colossians 1:16-18

Conversely, GOD "has pleasure in the prosperity of His servant." - Psalm 35:27 and has toward those who come to Him - "thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope."

Until one's last breath, one doesn't truly know if perhaps one is the Lord's - like the thief on the cross beside the Lord JESUS, the CHRIST. 

+++

"Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, “If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.” But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.” And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.” - Luke 23:39-44
Reply
#27
RE: How much influence does he have?
"GOD "has pleasure in the prosperity of His servant"???

Why would an all powerful, all knowing god need a servant?
To lazy to get off his all powerful ass maybe?
The meek shall inherit the Earth, the rest of us will fly to the stars.

Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups

Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig in mud ..... after a while you realise that the pig likes it!

Reply
#28
RE: How much influence does he have?
(September 12, 2021 at 12:23 pm)Mercyvessel Wrote:
(September 1, 2021 at 12:03 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: In such a clockwork world, god doing things for his glory could only have an audience of one.  I don't know what sense it makes to talk about peoples selfish actions if they themselves have predestined paths, or why it would be an issue for the cogs in the face of an all-controlling god in pursuit of it's own glory.

Perhaps those authors constructed a legend around the banality of evil - a persistent observation of the human condition.  That those most intent to harm are often fuckups, that good prevails not because of the actions of good men, but fortuitously, through the incompetence and compulsions of bad men.

For His glory, yes indeed, and why not?  "For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence." - Colossians 1:16-18

Conversely, GOD "has pleasure in the prosperity of His servant." - Psalm 35:27 and has toward those who come to Him - "thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope."

Until one's last breath, one doesn't truly know if perhaps one is the Lord's - like the thief on the cross beside the Lord JESUS, the CHRIST. 

+++

"Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, “If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.” But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.” And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.” - Luke 23:39-44

Sadly for you, a book written by a committee of bronze age goat botherers doesn't amount to even the merest shred of evidence. The bible has gotten so much science, history and geography wrong that an honest person must admit that the chance that it contains any truth is infintessimally small.
The great appear great because we are on our knees. Let us rise!
Big James
Reply
#29
RE: How much influence does he have?
(September 12, 2021 at 12:23 pm)Mercyvessel Wrote:
(September 1, 2021 at 12:03 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: In such a clockwork world, god doing things for his glory could only have an audience of one.  I don't know what sense it makes to talk about peoples selfish actions if they themselves have predestined paths, or why it would be an issue for the cogs in the face of an all-controlling god in pursuit of it's own glory.

Perhaps those authors constructed a legend around the banality of evil - a persistent observation of the human condition.  That those most intent to harm are often fuckups, that good prevails not because of the actions of good men, but fortuitously, through the incompetence and compulsions of bad men.

For His glory, yes indeed, and why not?  
Why not indeed.  It sounds on brand for magic books god - I just don't see the point of concern trolling humans about pride our glory seeking given it's the main occupation of the grand poobah himself.

Quote:Until one's last breath, one doesn't truly know if perhaps one is the Lord's - like the thief on the cross beside the Lord JESUS, the CHRIST. 

I suspect that some of us may know ourselves better than others.  I, for example, don't belong to your imaginary friend.....and I don't have to wait until my dying breath to know that no matter what your magic book says. The faithful have a hard time understanding this, preferring fairy tales and their own fantasies rather than simple explanations. For me, it's not an issue of belief. Your religion is evil, the simple idea of christ is hot garbage. That's before the celestial play of a clockwork universe and it's attendant maladministration - as told by magic book.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#30
RE: How much influence does he have?
I was going to make a new thread but it's the same sort of thing as this topic. 

What is God's will? Like, what is that? If something is God's will, what does that mean?

A person in another thread stated that something can be God's will without him demanding a certain outcome. What the hell does that mean, then? What does it mean if something is God's will yet he has no intention or predisposition for any particular outcome?

Is this like the trinity? Where God is both controlling something happening at the same time as he doesn't intend for it to happen the way that it does? The box is both a cube and an orb simultaneously.

Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  How much of my personal experience should I tell the world? Der/die AtheistIn 10 801 January 18, 2019 at 8:08 am
Last Post: Der/die AtheistIn
  Christians: Why does the answer have to be god? IanHulett 67 12449 April 5, 2018 at 3:33 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Christians: Does Your God Have Testicles and Ovaries? chimp3 97 12102 April 1, 2018 at 1:37 am
Last Post: GrandizerII
  Why does my family want me to be christian so much? Der/die AtheistIn 17 1886 March 29, 2018 at 7:12 pm
Last Post: Succubus
  Does Pope Francis have a fantasy-prone personality disorder? Jehanne 117 12018 August 15, 2016 at 5:30 am
Last Post: GUBU
  I Have Proof the the Christian God Does Not and Cannot Eist Rhondazvous 89 10421 July 5, 2016 at 1:51 pm
Last Post: Rhondazvous
  Why Does God Need So Much Praise? Rhondazvous 57 6524 April 24, 2016 at 6:46 pm
Last Post: drfuzzy
  Will the influence of religion always exist in my life GoHalos1993 12 2941 November 27, 2015 at 9:59 pm
Last Post: brewer
  The prenatal influence of visual impressions Mudhammam 12 1700 October 14, 2015 at 11:59 pm
Last Post: vorlon13
  Know a christian by his fruit. How much fruit? Brakeman 30 3130 January 20, 2015 at 6:58 pm
Last Post: dyresand



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)