Unless you have a painful terminal illness or you're being tortured or something, existence is always better than non-existence.

(October 25, 2021 at 4:37 pm)Aegon Wrote: Unless you have a painful terminal illness or you're being tortured or something, existence is always better than non-existence.

.. Perhaps have a go at explaining how you've reached this conclusion.   Imo non existence isn't an experience so may not be reasonably compared with any experience. 

I've always ben fond of this:

" I was not
  I was
  I am not
  I don't care"   (From an ancient tomb one the Via Apia not far from Rome)

(October 25, 2021 at 1:59 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: I know Nudger and Vulc are going to groan at me, but I’m still trying to work out what it even means to say that “life has meaning;” or if that’s even possible.

It is an odd concept, all the more so because "life" is essentially just a sequence of events spanning a lifetime, and the only common factor is the mind of the person experiencing those events.

Life as a whole would therefore have multiple, sometimes contradictory meanings because of our reactions to the different things that have happened to us over the years. We could therefore consider one particular event to be very meaningful, and a thousand others (say, having oatmeal for breakfast this morning) to be completely inconsequential.

(October 25, 2021 at 10:40 pm)Astreja Wrote:

(October 25, 2021 at 1:59 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: I know Nudger and Vulc are going to groan at me, but I’m still trying to work out what it even means to say that “life has meaning;” or if that’s even possible.

It is an odd concept, all the more so because "life" is essentially just a sequence of events spanning a lifetime, and the only common factor is the mind of the person experiencing those events.

Life as a whole would therefore have multiple, sometimes contradictory meanings because of our reactions to the different things that have happened to us over the years. We could therefore consider one particular event to be very meaningful, and a thousand others (say, having oatmeal for breakfast this morning) to be completely inconsequential.

Put into context of reproduction and evolution, all life has meaning. But something tells me you guys want something more personal.

(October 23, 2021 at 10:34 pm)snowtracks Wrote: Without the resurrection+, life doesn't have any meaning. Atheists are content with death having the final say. However, everyone is resurrected, adjust to it. 


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+  What do I gain if, humanly speaking, I fought with beasts at Ephesus? If the dead are not raised, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die. 1 Cor 15:32

The kind of mind that thinks a scriptural verse is evidence of anything is a mal-adjusted mind.

(October 25, 2021 at 4:37 pm)Aegon Wrote: Unless you have a painful terminal illness or you're being tortured or something, existence is always better than non-existence.

What is the justification for that proposition? What do you mean by “better”?

(October 25, 2021 at 10:40 pm)Astreja Wrote:

(October 25, 2021 at 1:59 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: I know Nudger and Vulc are going to groan at me, but I’m still trying to work out what it even means to say that “life has meaning;” or if that’s even possible.

It is an odd concept, all the more so because "life" is essentially just a sequence of events spanning a lifetime, and the only common factor is the mind of the person experiencing those events.

Life as a whole would therefore have multiple, sometimes contradictory meanings because of our reactions to the different things that have happened to us over the years. We could therefore consider one particular event to be very meaningful, and a thousand others (say, having oatmeal for breakfast this morning) to be completely inconsequential.

Yeah, this is where I lose my sense of direction on the matter. I understand that events mean something to “me”, the experiencer, within the framework of my experience; i.e., I love oatmeal, and so if I eat oatmeal for breakfast tomorrow that means I enjoyed oatmeal and had a pleasurable breakfast. But how do we give meaning to experience itself? To “I”? Some people leverage that experience for its own sake is the meaning, but I just don’t follow. I’m missing something.

Of course life has meaning. The meaning of life is itself. I don't mean in a vulgar egocentric way, but life itself. On our planet alone, life is to be found in mind boggling different forms. Each of those forms struggles in its own way to survive long enough to reproduce.

Because we seem to be one of a handful of species with sentience , we have formed the arrogant opinion that we're something special, more worthwhile than other life forms.

Human beings have never ceased inventing gods to convince themselves they matter, individually or as a species. We don't .

A genuine misanthrope, I have low opinion of human beings as a species. There are some individuals I quite like. EG siblings, a few friends ,that kind of thing. In my opinion human beings will do the planet a great service when we go extinct. By the speed in which we are making our environment uninhabitable, I suspect that will be sooner rather than later. I might be wrong, but I can't see our specie lasting as long as say sharks or crocodilians . I think Dolphins will survive much longer. This because they are smart, fully adapted to their environment and do not need tools to survive. Of course it's possible we'll finish poisoning the ocean and they will all die.


Thought for today: Religion; " A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable" (Ambrose Bierce)

I just don’t get it. I think maybe I’m missing something…like, missing something. Upstairs. *taps head* 😛

(October 25, 2021 at 11:30 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: But how do we give meaning to experience itself? To “I”? Some people leverage that experience for its own sake is the meaning, but I just don’t follow. I’m missing something.

I think I see what you're getting at, and now I'm confused too. It's one thing to say "that was a meaningful experience," but what's going on under the hood? What is the mind actually doing when it perceives meaning? Is it a particular kind of neurological connection, for instance, between certain brain regions?

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(October 25, 2021 at 10:55 pm)brewer Wrote: Put into context of reproduction and evolution, all life has meaning. But something tells me you guys want something more personal.

Yes, "my meaning" as opposed to a generic one. Evolution seems to operate fine without it, but individual human behaviour often benefits from having goals, plans, purpose.