(December 10, 2021 at 8:39 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Imma take these one at a time.

Quote:Quit being obtuse.

I'm not. I'm trying to get you to understand the point that freedom that endangers other people must be limited.

Quote:If it is your house it' s your rules. If you want to inhale poison.- have at it.

For now, it is.

Quote:If you have kids and you want them to suck poison then sadly that is your right too.......

I thought your country had laws against child endangerment. Clearly, I was mistaken.

Quote:Your country is majority xtian... Should public opinion rule - and your kid be given a xtian education - because clearly your atheism is fucking them up????

No, my country is NOT majority Christian, it isn't even majority religious. 38% Christian, 44% non-religious (the balance is a smattering of other, non-Christian religions). Give that this is the case, the rest of your statement needs no reply.

Quote:Having freedom frequently means allowing people to do things you see as immoral or just distasteful....

Agreed. However, it does not mean allowing people to do things which endanger public health and safety (you know, like those riots that always get your knickers in a twist).  As I said before, NO freedoms are absolute - not speech, not assembly, not religion, not press. But these freedoms are legislated to exist in limited, curtailed form because doing so contributes to the public good. Tobacco use contributes nothing.

Boru

The funny thing is you could turn his argument about "where does it end? " to the"freedom" to do immoral or distasteful things.

Honestly, Boru made a noble attempt at the Socratic Method, but using it like that only works when you can reasonably expect a meaningful level of intellectual or moral common ground with the other person. And Biker seems to have made a point of never ceding that common ground, either because he’s pathologically committed to playing Devil’s Advocate or because his views are just that bizarre.

(December 10, 2021 at 8:48 pm)Helios Wrote:

(December 10, 2021 at 8:39 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Imma take these one at a time.


I'm not. I'm trying to get you to understand the point that freedom that endangers other people must be limited.


For now, it is.


I thought your country had laws against child endangerment. Clearly, I was mistaken.


No, my country is NOT majority Christian, it isn't even majority religious. 38% Christian, 44% non-religious (the balance is a smattering of other, non-Christian religions). Give that this is the case, the rest of your statement needs no reply.


Agreed. However, it does not mean allowing people to do things which endanger public health and safety (you know, like those riots that always get your knickers in a twist).  As I said before, NO freedoms are absolute - not speech, not assembly, not religion, not press. But these freedoms are legislated to exist in limited, curtailed form because doing so contributes to the public good. Tobacco use contributes nothing.

Boru

The funny thing is you could turn his argument about "where does it end? " to the"freedom" to do immoral or distasteful things.

 
Where does it end? Really?

Put it this way; life is an activity from which nobody leaves alive. 

(December 10, 2021 at 9:28 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: Honestly, Boru made a noble attempt at the Socratic Method, but using it like that only works when you can reasonably expect a meaningful level of intellectual or moral common ground with the other person. And Biker seems to have made a point of never ceding that common ground, either because he’s pathologically committed to playing Devil’s Advocate or because his views are just that bizarre.

Devil’s advocate or the devil advocating?

(December 10, 2021 at 10:57 pm)Oldandeasilyconfused Wrote:

(December 10, 2021 at 8:48 pm)Helios Wrote: The funny thing is you could turn his argument about "where does it end? " to the"freedom" to do immoral or distasteful things.

 
Where does it end? Really?

Put it this way; life is an activity from which nobody leaves alive. 

I was more referring to OLB's notion that if we restrict one thing we would need to keep restricting things. I was pointing out that you could argue the reverse that in the name of the "freedom "  to do immoral and distasteful things you could justify all sorts of terrible shit. I wasn't really referring to the end of life.

---

(December 10, 2021 at 9:28 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: Honestly, Boru made a noble attempt at the Socratic Method, but using it like that only works when you can reasonably expect a meaningful level of intellectual or moral common ground with the other person. And Biker seems to have made a point of never ceding that common ground, either because he’s pathologically committed to playing Devil’s Advocate or because his views are just that bizarre.

He's committed contrarian

Why take this measure, instead of just banning the sale (not possession, but sale) of tobacco products altogether?

(December 12, 2021 at 4:56 pm)Cecelia Wrote: Why take this measure, instead of just banning the sale (not possession, but sale) of tobacco products altogether?

That’s what the measure will do - ban the sale of tobacco products to anyone born after 2008. The full ban will come later, in stages.

I’m unsure how, if tobacco is not sold, people would come to possess it.

Boru

(December 12, 2021 at 5:03 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(December 12, 2021 at 4:56 pm)Cecelia Wrote: Why take this measure, instead of just banning the sale (not possession, but sale) of tobacco products altogether?

That’s what the measure will do - ban the sale of tobacco products to anyone born after 2008. The full ban will come later, in stages.

I’m unsure how, if tobacco is not sold, people would come to possess it.

Boru

Could they grow it??

(December 12, 2021 at 5:03 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: That’s what the measure will do - ban the sale of tobacco products to anyone born after 2008. The full ban will come later, in stages.

I’m unsure how, if tobacco is not sold, people would come to possess it.

Boru

"Life finds a way."

--Ian Malcolm

(December 12, 2021 at 5:10 pm)zebo-the-fat Wrote:

(December 12, 2021 at 5:03 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: That’s what the measure will do - ban the sale of tobacco products to anyone born after 2008. The full ban will come later, in stages.

I’m unsure how, if tobacco is not sold, people would come to possess it.

Boru

Could they grow it??

Yes, can grow your own here. I’m sure that will come to an end eventually. Continuing to allow it to be home-grown for personal use would seem to give the lie to the whole effort to get shut of the effects of tobacco on health.

Boru