(December 13, 2021 at 5:45 am)onlinebiker Wrote:

(December 13, 2021 at 4:50 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: It chiefly affects me by straining healthcare resources.

And if you really, truly believe that people can confine a nicotine addiction to their own home, I'd like to talk you about these shares in a gumdrop mine I have for sale.

Boru

The same arguement could be applied to ANYTHING that could be such a drain.

Motorcycles, mountain climbing, sugar, risky sexual behavior..


Are you against legalizing any other drugs?

Steps can be taken to mitigate the risk of all those things you mention, which is why - combined - they don’t even begin to approach the number of illnesses and deaths directly linked to tobacco use.

No, I’m not, for the reason I just mentioned.

Boru

(December 13, 2021 at 6:36 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(December 13, 2021 at 5:45 am)onlinebiker Wrote: The same arguement could be applied to ANYTHING that could be such a drain.

Motorcycles, mountain climbing, sugar, risky sexual behavior..


Are you against legalizing any other drugs?

Steps can be taken to mitigate the risk of all those things you mention, which is why - combined - they don’t even begin to approach the number of illnesses and deaths directly linked to tobacco use.

No, I’m not, for the reason I just mentioned.

Boru

Bwaahahaha...

Wear a helmet - you' ll be SAFE then!

Sorry - I can 't argue with a bloke who believes it' s ok for the government to make your decisions for you.

And I’m sure many of us think the same about a guy who thinks parents have the right to make their children breathe poisonous gas.

(December 10, 2021 at 7:03 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: If you have kids and you want them to suck poison then sadly that is your right too.......

Seriously, it’s one thing to have libertarian ideals, and it’s another thing to be a psychopath.

(December 13, 2021 at 9:45 am)onlinebiker Wrote:

(December 13, 2021 at 6:36 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Steps can be taken to mitigate the risk of all those things you mention, which is why - combined - they don’t even begin to approach the number of illnesses and deaths directly linked to tobacco use.

No, I’m not, for the reason I just mentioned.

Boru

Bwaahahaha...

Wear a helmet - you' ll be SAFE then!

Sorry - I can 't argue with a bloke who believes it' s ok for the government to make your decisions for you.

You’ll be safer if you wear a helmet (regarding head injuries at least). You’ll be  much safer from motorcycle injuries if you never ride a motorcycle. You’ll be completely safe from motorcycle injuries if you live in a place that has banned motorcycles.

You’ll be safer if you smoke low nicotine cigarettes. You’ll be much safer from the harm caused by smoking if you never take up smoking. You’ll be completely safe if you live in a place that has banned tobacco.

Boru

Big government worshippers are always in favor of legislation that tells other people what to do.
 They love legislating dumb behavior - until it's THEIR dumb behavior being outlawed.

And trust me - we can ALL find something the other bonehead is doing wrong.

(December 13, 2021 at 11:57 am)onlinebiker Wrote: Big government worshippers are always in favor of legislation that tells other people what to do.
 They love legislating dumb behavior - until it's THEIR dumb behavior being outlawed.

And trust me - we can ALL find something the other bonehead is doing wrong.

When that dumb behaviour puts me - and my nearest and dearest at risk - you’re damned right I want it legislated. Don’t you have laws against drunk driving? Don’t you have speed limits? Is dumping your garbage in the street legal?

Boru

(December 13, 2021 at 12:15 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(December 13, 2021 at 11:57 am)onlinebiker Wrote: Big government worshippers are always in favor of legislation that tells other people what to do.
 They love legislating dumb behavior - until it's THEIR dumb behavior being outlawed.

And trust me - we can ALL find something the other bonehead is doing wrong.

When that dumb behaviour puts me - and my nearest and dearest at risk - you’re damned right I want it legislated. Don’t you have laws against drunk driving? Don’t you have speed limits? Is dumping your garbage in the street legal?

Boru

You still have not detailed the harm you incur when an idiot smokes in the privacy of his home.

Health care costs aside. Unless you are in favor of all aspects of your health being government mandated.

Edit to add

Ever seen the movie "Demolition Man"?

I see it as a cautionary tale.

I think you would see it as a feelgood romp about a bright future.

You = Dr Cocteau
Me = Edgar Friendly

.....

I'm more with OB here. Liberals can sometimes learn something from Libertarians. Smoking is nasty and dangerous, but the desire to "fix society" is found in both the left and the right, and will lead to fewer freedoms.

If you’re alone or with an adult who knows the risk and doesn’t care, I say go for it, even if tobacco is a high risk, low reward sort of recreational drug.

If you have kids or other people who can’t or won’t consent:



And I’ve heard of cases where secondhand smoke even gives cancer.

While I tend to be firmly on the side of “legalize everything,” I have to admit Brian does have a legit point (even if I’m not convinced the laws being proposed will work). And it’s not like there’s such a thing as secondhand alcohol or secondhand cocaine or heroin (unless your dealer is that shit).

(December 13, 2021 at 12:26 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: Health care costs aside. Unless you are in favor of all aspects of your health being government mandated.

Do you consider any other lifestyle choices to have as significant a monetary cost to society? Obesity comes to mind, but that's not a lifestyle choice. The idea that riding motorcycles incurs a comparable amount of cost to society as smoking is probably not borne out by the statistics. You're essentially making the argument that if we ban smoking for the societal costs, we would be justified in banning X for having similarly comparable costs. I don't know what you're putting in the place of X. Do you?