Boarded the crazy town express, huh.

(January 20, 2022 at 3:47 pm)HappySkeptic Wrote: The problem with discussions like this is that actions of stupid people become "what the other side wants to do".

That isn't true.  IA has agreed that calling everything CRT isn't correct, and the lefties on here agree that dividing students in "oppressors and oppressed" is just f'ing stupid.

So, why is the Florida law happening?  If it was just to stop maverick teachers from doing the "oppressors and oppressed" thing, it would be justified, with the proper wording.  However, that isn't it - the purpose is to shut down any discussion of racial injustice.

Now, what parts of racial history should be taught, and to what grades, and how should it be taught?  I don't know.  There is room for discussion there.  I think the "politics of victimization" on the Left, while understandable, isn't going to have to have the desired results.  It is going to lead to resentment and backlash.  For the Right, the politics of "white victimhood" is also not going to end well - that leads to more oppression and violence (by their side) and division.

Just be frick'n honest about the past, assess the realities of the present, and work toward opportunity for all.  That is valid whether we are talking about white/black, immigrant/non, rich/poor, healthy/disabled, etc.

I don't necessarily agree with the Republicans take on this, but to steelman their position the best I probably can, I assume they are thinking that with what they've already seen taught to young children about the current racial climate, that teachers can't be trusted with this subject at all and that it's better left to the parents to explain this all to their own children. I can understand that line of thinking, although when I was in school, we were taught not be be bullies or judge people based on differences, and I think that was a good thing. I certainly do not agree with the suppression of teaching history either. We certainly need to continue teaching history.

Quote:Was it right-wing journalists promising bombshell revelations of Trump-Russian collusion based on fantasies and institutional corruption? Was it the "right" trying to suppress the lab leak hypothesis? Or labeling obvious riots, complete with arson blazing buildings, "peaceful protests"? Or promoting the notion that January 6th was an insurrection without weapons or command structure. Which administration is now holding political prisoners in solitary confinement? The left doesn't get a pass on their shit any more than the right can deny that the old money Bush neo-cons deceived the public and used glorified service members to manipulate public sentiment. The lives ruined and billions wasted to no good end.

Lol Fox News Alternate reality on full display 

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(January 20, 2022 at 4:48 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Boarded the crazy town express, huh.

And is taking it to it's logical destination 

(January 20, 2022 at 5:00 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote:

(January 20, 2022 at 3:47 pm)HappySkeptic Wrote: The problem with discussions like this is that actions of stupid people become "what the other side wants to do".

That isn't true.  IA has agreed that calling everything CRT isn't correct, and the lefties on here agree that dividing students in "oppressors and oppressed" is just f'ing stupid.

So, why is the Florida law happening?  If it was just to stop maverick teachers from doing the "oppressors and oppressed" thing, it would be justified, with the proper wording.  However, that isn't it - the purpose is to shut down any discussion of racial injustice.

Now, what parts of racial history should be taught, and to what grades, and how should it be taught?  I don't know.  There is room for discussion there.  I think the "politics of victimization" on the Left, while understandable, isn't going to have to have the desired results.  It is going to lead to resentment and backlash.  For the Right, the politics of "white victimhood" is also not going to end well - that leads to more oppression and violence (by their side) and division.

Just be frick'n honest about the past, assess the realities of the present, and work toward opportunity for all.  That is valid whether we are talking about white/black, immigrant/non, rich/poor, healthy/disabled, etc.

I don't necessarily agree with the Republicans take on this, but to steelman their position the best I probably can, I assume they are thinking that with what they've already seen taught to young children about the current racial climate, that teachers can't be trusted with this subject at all and that it's better left to the parents to explain this all to their own children. I can understand that line of thinking, although when I was in school, we were taught not be be bullies or judge people based on differences, and I think that was a good thing. I certainly do not agree with the suppression of teaching history either. We certainly need to continue teaching history.

You misunderstand - the parents think that teachers can be trusted just fine to teach their kids the approved line on items that hurt their (not their children's) fragile white fee-fees....so long as you make it a law. They want the schools to stay open, not to close, member? It's just that the approved line doesn't contain any of that icky history stuff that gets in the way of a resurgent white supremacist movement.

Interesting little exchange I had between Florida Men a bit back. He leans in, "can you believe that they're teaching kids that the us is a racist country founded on racism and fueled by racism?" I'm one of those super patriot flag waving types...so he had expectations of this getting my ire up. Meanwhile, the maga king is telling our nanas that you have to go to the back of the line if you're white. Race war today, race war tomorrow, race war forever. It's all they've got, so it's all they do.

: shrugs :

Maybe some parents just think the curriculum should focus on basic skills and do not think their school children should be used as instruments of social engineering of either the right or the left. Do-gooders seem always up to no good.

If you drew a venn diagram, people obsessed with "crt" wouldn't overlap with people who think basic skills or knowledge should be the focus, but that some basic skills and some basic knowledge shouldn't be taught at all. That and fucking dominionists. You wouldn't find people who thought that their children shouldn't be indoctrinated by the right or left, but people who think that children should only be indoctrinated by the right.

They wear this garbage on their sleeve, you can't rehabilitate them from afar, nor..for that matter..will the stink of the shit you're rubbing yourself in come off easily.

Quote:Maybe some parents just think the curriculum should focus on basic skills and do not think their school children should be used as instruments of social engineering of either the right or the left. Do-gooders seem always up to no good.

Apparently understanding reality isn't a basic skill according to conservatives. Well, that explains everything ..... 

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(January 20, 2022 at 7:13 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: If you drew a venn diagram,  people obsessed with "crt" wouldn't overlap with people who think basic skills or knowledge should be the focus, but that some basic skills and some basic knowledge shouldn't be taught at all.  That and fucking dominionists.  You wouldn't find people who thought that their children shouldn't be indoctrinated by the right or left, but people who think that children should only be indoctrinated by the right.

They wear this garbage on their sleeve, you can't rehabilitate them from afar, nor..for that matter..will the stink of the shit you're rubbing yourself in come off easily.

Remember these are the same people who were pushing "patriotic education "

The shallow patriotism of the reich wing is pathetic. A description of how they feel certain way about a self serving fiction. They never get tired of telling everyone else how much they hate the reality of the country. How it's all wrong. Ultimately, how reality got it wrong and how they intend to make it right.

(January 20, 2022 at 2:34 pm)Spongebob Wrote:

(January 20, 2022 at 2:27 pm)tackattack Wrote: https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/19/us/florid...index.html

"The legislation would prohibit individuals from making people "feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress on account of his or her race, color, sex, or national origin."

well looks like Florida is afraid of being offended... start downhill spiral.

That sort of language is so broad it could literally be used to defend almost any decision.  Hey, lets ban basketball because the basketball teams are 98% black and it makes the white boys feel insignificant.  And that wasn't even including a comparison of their dicks.

And the strange thing is, it turns out that black penises aren't all that much bigger than white penises.

If you have a device with a headphone jack (and they're getting rarer and rarer for whatever fucking reason), that jack's diameter is bigger than the difference between the average white and black penis. Granted, the standard deviation is much bigger, and now that I think about it, the study included an extremely diverse set of Africans (bear in mind, there are literally thousands of ethnic groups in Africa and that's even before accounting for the colonisers or the Arabs) that may or may not be representative of those people snatched away to America. And the fact that the average African-American genome has the equivalent of a white grandparent might complicate things.

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(January 20, 2022 at 4:41 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:

(January 20, 2022 at 2:26 pm)Spongebob Wrote: Couldn't have said it better...

The right is all about misinformation and gaslighting.  They are champions of this.

Was it right-wing journalists promising bombshell revelations of Trump-Russian collusion based on fantasies and institutional corruption? Was it the "right" trying to suppress the lab leak hypothesis? Or labeling obvious riots, complete with arson blazing buildings, "peaceful protests"?  Or promoting the notion that January 6th was an insurrection without weapons or command structure. Which administration is now holding political prisoners in solitary confinement? The left doesn't get a pass on their shit any more than the right can deny that the old money Bush neo-cons deceived the public and used glorified service members to manipulate public sentiment. The lives ruined and billions wasted to no good end.

Show me evidence of them openly admitting to deliberately lying about Russia, the origins of COVID, the George Floyd protests, and January 6 in the same way Chris Rufo is, and then we can talk about how comparable these instances are.

And, yes, Biden still not doing much to change the situation at the border is still shit, but it's not relevant to the discussion at hand.

(January 18, 2022 at 5:01 pm)Helios Wrote: Leave it to IA to produce a massively slanted  version of the evens at evergreen and use an extremist right-wing source 

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Bret_Weins...e_incident

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He's some piece of work, shows how fucked up the US is, that he can get a well paying job after all that.