Quote:I forget who said it, but the phrase "in an infinite universe, everything is possible" comes to mind.

I'm not sure who said that either, but it would be more more accurately phrased as "In an infinite universe, everything is inevitable.".

However, we don't appear to exist in a infinite universe. Ours is (apparently) bounded both in terms of space and time. It is, however, mind-boggling immense, old, and will exist for a very very long time. The "Law of large numbers" applies here - events of huge statistical improbability have very good odds (approaching certainty) of happening somewhere, at some time, given enough trials.

So yeah, I don't believe that the earth tooth fairy myth has any basis in reality. That would be silly. But - I do not dismiss the possibility that such a creature could not exist on cosmological space and time scales. I'm not losing any sleep over it, though.

(November 22, 2011 at 7:03 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:

Quote:I forget who said it, but the phrase "in an infinite universe, everything is possible" comes to mind.

I'm not sure who said that either, but it would be more more accurately phrased as "In an infinite universe, everything is inevitable.".

However, we don't appear to exist in a infinite universe. Ours is (apparently) bounded both in terms of space and time. It is, however, mind-boggling immense, old, and will exist for a very very long time. The "Law of large numbers" applies here - events of huge statistical improbability have very good odds (approaching certainty) of happening somewhere, at some time, given enough trials.

So yeah, I don't believe that the earth tooth fairy myth has any basis in reality. That would be silly. But - I do not dismiss the possibility that such a creature could not exist on cosmological space and time scales. I'm not losing any sleep over it, though.

The point is that the tooth fairy is our fictional construct, so it can't exist anywhere else in the universe, it can only exist fictionally, on earth, because that is what it is.

Should a similar creature exist elsewhere, it is nothing more than a similar creature that happens to be actually real.

It's fictional as far as we know, and we only know it as fictional because the only place we've found them so far are in fictional books. However, if I were to come up with a "fictional" species, and then quite by coincidence, happen to find them on some planet somewhere, they wouldn't be fictional anymore, would they?

You are simply moving the goalposts here. Of course, a "fictional" tooth fairy cannot be real, but the point is, what if not all tooth fairies are fictional? You cannot prove that all tooth fairies are fictional, just because the only places we currently find them are in fiction. It's an illogical argument.

(November 21, 2011 at 4:04 pm)Norfolk And Chance Wrote:

(November 21, 2011 at 3:22 pm)aleialoura Wrote: Do you know that unicorns and fairies don't exist? If so, how do you know?

Because they are fictional.

Are they?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4npajXFWcc

(November 22, 2011 at 7:22 pm)Tiberius Wrote: It's fictional as far as we know, and we only know it as fictional because the only place we've found them so far are in fictional books. However, if I were to come up with a "fictional" species, and then quite by coincidence, happen to find them on some planet somewhere, they wouldn't be fictional anymore, would they?

I DO understand your point, and I'm not just opposing you for the hell of it. You think it possible that the tooth fairy could be real, I don't, this makes me deluded, what else can I really say?

Quote:You are simply moving the goalposts here. Of course, a "fictional" tooth fairy cannot be real, but the point is, what if not all tooth fairies are fictional?

You have to assume that there could be an "all tooth fairies" in the first place, in order to theorise that they might not all be fictional. There is no evidence for any tooth fairy at all so why even bother going down that road? The only tooth fairy we know of is the fictional one in books, and that we play out.

This is the only one we can talk about, and obviously this same creature cannot be fictional and real. If it was two different creatures in two different places it could be fictional and real, but it would also be two different creatures anyway.

So really, can it be illogical for me to talk about the one we know about and say it is fiction, and it cannot be real?

If I go to Mars and find a Cheetah like creature, does it make it a Cheetah? (If you rule out direct relation to the creatures on earth).

Quote:You cannot prove that all tooth fairies are fictional, just because the only places we currently find them are in fiction. It's an illogical argument.

What is this "all tooth fairies" that you talk about?

And I don't really need to prove that the fictional tooth fairy isn't real do I?

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(November 22, 2011 at 7:38 pm)popeyespappy Wrote:

(November 21, 2011 at 4:04 pm)Norfolk And Chance Wrote:

(November 21, 2011 at 3:22 pm)aleialoura Wrote: Do you know that unicorns and fairies don't exist? If so, how do you know?

Because they are fictional.

Are they?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4npajXFWcc

Which bit of "it's a deer" don't you understand, then?

Actually, the tooth fairy is only partly fiction, anyway. There are countless tooth fairies. They just don't have wings.

(November 22, 2011 at 8:08 pm)Shell B Wrote: Actually, the tooth fairy is only partly fiction, anyway. There are countless tooth fairies. They just don't have wings.

Is that "tooth fairies" or 'toothed fairies'?

So would anybody state "I don't know if the tooth fairy is real or not"?

With a straight face?

Anyway, I bow out now, it's been great fun.

(November 22, 2011 at 8:14 pm)IATIA Wrote:

(November 22, 2011 at 8:08 pm)Shell B Wrote: Actually, the tooth fairy is only partly fiction, anyway. There are countless tooth fairies. They just don't have wings.

Is that "tooth fairies" or 'toothed fairies'?

I was more referring to parents who are the tooth fairy, but I like your interpretation more.

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(November 22, 2011 at 8:16 pm)Norfolk And Chance Wrote: So would anybody state "I don't know if the tooth fairy is real or not"?

With a straight face?

Anyway, I bow out now, it's been great fun.

In a debate such as this, yes. In a casual conversation where it is unlikely that I will elaborate on such a statement, no.

I think the problem of suffering and evil, can convince people to gnostic strong atheism. Well you might say what about non-caring non-good non-loving Creator. Well that to me would not be a god. A god is worthy of worship, and I wouldn't find worthy of worship a being that created without having good intent for them.

So I would say the problem of suffering and evil is a very strong argument for gnostic strong atheism stance. However, I feel their his mysterious beauty and glory in midst of all the suffering and struggling, and although I can't make a simple argument against it, it feels this a real building ground to make honorable heroic characters which would not be possible in a world without suffering.

I would say the problem of suffering and evil so far as to go gives a moral face to strong gnostic atheism. I would understand a person whom claims to know a Good God doesn't exist (and to be worthy of worship, I would say you have to be good) if he reasoned by the problem of suffering and evil.