Isn't that an observational example of people satisfying this alleged debt, to you? Why, then, if your parents are doing what satisfies your ethical demands, would their having simply had you be unethical?

(March 2, 2022 at 2:36 pm)Ahriman Wrote:

(March 2, 2022 at 2:34 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: WTF is normal?

Everyone's normal is different...some more than others.  Middle child has addiction issues...is that normal?  Yeah, probably got it from her dad.  She has figured out a way to survive in spite of having issues.  She's so determined to not accept help that she fights through those issues and figures it the fuck out for herself and her kids.

Nice that you feed off your dad's guilt.

Parasites breed parasites. I can only be as good as I was raised to be.

No, you can rise above.  

I didn't grow up to abuse my children.

I somehow doubt we're giving this idea solid representation. I think we can wonder whether a moral agent would choose life if it had a full understanding of the consequences of that life vis a vis suffering. It's a weird setup right off the bat, imo, because we don't have a frame of reference for that. We don't remember all of our suffering, and can't reliably predict all of our future suffering - and even if we could, it doesn't seem to be the case that we could apprehend that entire body of facts in a comprehensive way.

All we can note, as Boru already noted, is that on balance it's been good and we rather enjoy being alive. Attached to the idea, you might say. A little bit.

It may be that an equivalent moral agent to any of us, supplied with the full information required to objectively process the relationships between those facts, would decline. One wonders how the world got so full of people, though...were that the case most often. In sum, whether the issue settles on one side or another (and either could be the case) we aren't supplied with sufficient information to uniformly declare an ethical judgement on people who want or decide to have children. We cant objectively declare that having children is unethical, only that it may be. No surprises there.

(March 2, 2022 at 2:50 pm)arewethereyet Wrote:

(March 2, 2022 at 2:36 pm)Ahriman Wrote: Parasites breed parasites. I can only be as good as I was raised to be.

No, you can rise above.  

I didn't grow up to abuse my children.

My children.....not that I'm ever having any......but my children would live forcibly abstract lives, devoid of any kind of societal "purpose". I wouldn't raise them to believe that "suffering is good/necessary/important" or any such humanisitc nonsense.

(March 2, 2022 at 3:09 pm)Ahriman Wrote:

(March 2, 2022 at 2:50 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: No, you can rise above.  

I didn't grow up to abuse my children.

My children.....not that I'm ever having any......but my children would live forcibly abstract lives, devoid of any kind of societal "purpose". I wouldn't raise them to believe that "suffering is good/necessary/important" or any such humanisitc nonsense.

I didn't either.  But they did know that shit happens.

(March 2, 2022 at 3:10 pm)arewethereyet Wrote:

(March 2, 2022 at 3:09 pm)Ahriman Wrote: My children.....not that I'm ever having any......but my children would live forcibly abstract lives, devoid of any kind of societal "purpose". I wouldn't raise them to believe that "suffering is good/necessary/important" or any such humanisitc nonsense.

I didn't either.  But they did know that shit happens.

I don't do anything worth mentioning with my life, because the way I see it, my life is already over. My best years are well behind me. If you were God, would you allow me to exist? Because I know I wouldn't.

(March 2, 2022 at 4:07 pm)Ahriman Wrote:

(March 2, 2022 at 3:10 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: I didn't either.  But they did know that shit happens.

I don't do anything worth mentioning with my life, because the way I see it, my life is already over. My best years are well behind me. If you were God, would you allow me to exist? Because I know I wouldn't.

You need to see a therapist, perhaps, even going to the nearest emergency room.

Life is still worth living, even if it is not perfect. Best years or not, if you are alive, you can at least reflect upon those years and relive them through others and your own memories.

(March 2, 2022 at 4:13 pm)Jehanne Wrote:

(March 2, 2022 at 4:07 pm)Ahriman Wrote: I don't do anything worth mentioning with my life, because the way I see it, my life is already over. My best years are well behind me. If you were God, would you allow me to exist? Because I know I wouldn't.

You need to see a therapist, perhaps, even going to the nearest emergency room.

Life is still worth living, even if it is not perfect.  Best years or not, if you are alive, you can at least reflect upon those years and relive them through others and your own memories.

Supposedly his mother is a nurse practitioner.  Either she's not very tuned in or this is a narrative for the forum.

(March 2, 2022 at 4:21 pm)arewethereyet Wrote:

(March 2, 2022 at 4:13 pm)Jehanne Wrote: You need to see a therapist, perhaps, even going to the nearest emergency room.

Life is still worth living, even if it is not perfect.  Best years or not, if you are alive, you can at least reflect upon those years and relive them through others and your own memories.

Supposedly his mother is a nurse practitioner.  Either she's not very tuned in or this is a narrative for the forum.

Some research psychologists have committed suicide over the last century; I would say that he needs to call someone now, but, our community can only be of limited help to him.

(March 2, 2022 at 4:21 pm)arewethereyet Wrote:

(March 2, 2022 at 4:13 pm)Jehanne Wrote: You need to see a therapist, perhaps, even going to the nearest emergency room.

Life is still worth living, even if it is not perfect.  Best years or not, if you are alive, you can at least reflect upon those years and relive them through others and your own memories.

Supposedly his mother is a nurse practitioner.  Either she's not very tuned in or this is a narrative for the forum.

It's not a narrative. My mom doesn't know how to help me. She even had me sent off to a very nice mental health resort a few years back. It was a few states away, but she felt like it would be worth it. I ended up staying there only a month and a half, came home, right back to square one.