(June 4, 2022 at 12:18 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: Like sports for instance. "Trans women are women" is simply just not a valid argument when it comes to sports, because there are different sub groupings of women, and the activists I think know that they are using manipulative language here to try and prove their point. It's irrelevant that trans women are women when it comes to sports, because women's sports were not created because of anything to do with identity or gender, but rather sex.

So trans women and sports are what worry you.

The thing with sports is that sports have never been fair. Like take ageism - you have to be young to compete in sports. Then look at physiques - tall people are pretty much the only ones who can play basketball. Big strong guys play football. People with long legs are best at running. People with bigger feet are better at swimming. And majority of people are disqualified from the start from ever being in professional sports just because of their physique which is normal.

And money also plays a big role since the richer some sports club is, the better players they can buy and outcompete others. So you'll never see some small-town basketball club competing with like Lakers, or just a poor basketball club competing with Lakers.

And yet you don't cry about any of that although it's much more unfair.

(June 4, 2022 at 12:18 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote:

(June 4, 2022 at 11:03 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: I.A., you are meandering all around like a drunk person talking about several subjects and people.

Aside from cancel culture, JK Rowling said many hateful things about trans women, saying that they are not women and how there is a large amount of hate towards them among real women (supposedly she is one of them). So Rowling is the one spreading cancel culture toward trans women.

Trancel culture was the original subject I brought up in the thread, so I'm just bringing it back to that by responding to Nudge's accusation of "anti-trans". Even if you put JK Rowling aside, I personally think trans women are women, and I was attacked just the same as JK Rowling for saying that cis women getting r worded and impregnated in prison is worthy of note. The response I got was, like I said before, similar to that of a Muslim extremist who isn't going to tolerate hearing about FGM, and I was told that I hate trans people for even talking about it, and a few posters basically said that women getting r worded and impregnated in prison is acceptable because they could get r worded by a bio woman too, which of course is the exact same thing. Like I said before, it's a cult, and if you break even one tenant of the faith, you get burned at the stake. Yes, people going on about trans in bathrooms are being way over the top, but something like a prison is a whole other story, as you're stuck with the people around you, and SA will happen.

Basically the mantra is "trans women are women", which is a true statement, but the activists use this language in very manipulative ways at times. Like sports for instance. "Trans women are women" is simply just not a valid argument when it comes to sports, because there are different sub groupings of women, and the activists I think know that they are using manipulative language here to try and prove their point. It's irrelevant that trans women are women when it comes to sports, because women's sports were not created because of anything to do with identity or gender, but rather sex. I think JK Rowling is worried that if she concedes to the points that I have conceded to, about trans women being women or whatever else, that it will just make things easier for the activists to argue for throwing cis women under the bus or not taking their concerns into account because their concerns are going to be taken less seriously, because trans women have the trump card of threatening to kill themselves if we don't give into their demands, and cis women really have no card they can throw down to really compete with that.

The problem with bringing up women being raped in prison by trans women is, well, cis women rape each other in prison fairly regularly. And before you bring up that it’s different because trans women can get impregnated by their rapists, you do know that men can be members of staff in women’s prison, right? And that said men can and frequently do sexually assault female prisoners and get away with it?

Lets see how these concerns work out in practice. When they manage to become laws, and without arguing the merits of the laws on their own self selected grounds.

Take ohio. A bill was passed in ohio based on all of these concerns. Purportedly aimed at protecting women and children from all of the very serious issues mentioned. It applies to a single person in the state. A softball player. Not a particularly great softball player, either. She has asthma. Slow clap everyone. Women and children white knighted from the clutches of inequality, and the manipulative tyranny of the vast transmenace!

https://spectrumnews1.com/oh/columbus/ne...ale-sports-

(June 4, 2022 at 1:04 pm)Jehanne Wrote:

(June 4, 2022 at 11:32 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: Her position? There was a talk about her position on page 12 of this topic, so I'll just paste it here again


She seems very upset by the mere existence of trans women.

I still do not understand her position; in particular, what does she want changed about UK law?

UK law has become much broader over the last few yeas and more inclusive of trans people and recognising that they have inherent human rights based on their gender and identity.

However there has been a big backlash from the reactionary right in the last while (see for example recent tory vulturpating on the matter), of which Rowling is unfortunately a part (she's also a fan of pulling up the social welfare ladder behind her).

(June 5, 2022 at 7:56 am)Nomad Wrote:

(June 4, 2022 at 1:04 pm)Jehanne Wrote: I still do not understand her position; in particular, what does she want changed about UK law?

UK law has become much broader over the last few yeas and more inclusive of trans people and recognising that they have inherent human rights based on their gender and identity.

However there has been a big backlash from the reactionary right in the last while (see for example recent tory vulturpating on the matter), of which Rowling is unfortunately a part (she's also a fan of pulling up the social welfare ladder behind her).

The UK government only posthumously pardoned Dr. Alan Turning, one of the greatest mathematical geniuses of all time, in 2009:

Alan Turning -- Posthumous pardon.

How far back in time does JK Rowling wish to go??

(June 4, 2022 at 2:12 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote:

(June 4, 2022 at 12:18 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: Like sports for instance. "Trans women are women" is simply just not a valid argument when it comes to sports, because there are different sub groupings of women, and the activists I think know that they are using manipulative language here to try and prove their point. It's irrelevant that trans women are women when it comes to sports, because women's sports were not created because of anything to do with identity or gender, but rather sex.

So trans women and sports are what worry you.

The thing with sports is that sports have never been fair. Like take ageism - you have to be young to compete in sports. Then look at physiques - tall people are pretty much the only ones who can play basketball. Big strong guys play football. People with long legs are best at running. People with bigger feet are better at swimming. And majority of people are disqualified from the start from ever being in professional sports just because of their physique which is normal.

And money also plays a big role since the richer some sports club is, the better players they can buy and outcompete others. So you'll never see some small-town basketball club competing with like Lakers, or just a poor basketball club competing with Lakers.

And yet you don't cry about any of that although it's much more unfair.

One guy has to be better than the other guy. That's what sport is about. Determining who the superior man or team is, through competition. You are misinterpreting things by thinking that anyone ever wanted everyone to be a robot who has the exact level of talent. That's not what we mean by fairness, and you are taking things far too literal to try to make some silly gotcha point that just isn't there. Is it wrong for a 30 year old to join a league of ten year olds and dominate them? You won't outright say that it's wrong, but you know it is, and this just goes to support my point. Different leagues and levels and divisions exist for good reason. There's a reason a 30 year old is not allowed in a league of ten year olds. Biological women's sports were literally created in the first place, because women could not compete with men, period, so we gave them their own thing. Can we at least recognize this reality? And now you want to take spots away from bio women, because on the victim scale, they fall below trans people, so therefore their concerns are thrown to the wayside and considered unimportant.

(June 4, 2022 at 5:39 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote:

(June 4, 2022 at 12:18 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: Trancel culture was the original subject I brought up in the thread, so I'm just bringing it back to that by responding to Nudge's accusation of "anti-trans". Even if you put JK Rowling aside, I personally think trans women are women, and I was attacked just the same as JK Rowling for saying that cis women getting r worded and impregnated in prison is worthy of note. The response I got was, like I said before, similar to that of a Muslim extremist who isn't going to tolerate hearing about FGM, and I was told that I hate trans people for even talking about it, and a few posters basically said that women getting r worded and impregnated in prison is acceptable because they could get r worded by a bio woman too, which of course is the exact same thing. Like I said before, it's a cult, and if you break even one tenant of the faith, you get burned at the stake. Yes, people going on about trans in bathrooms are being way over the top, but something like a prison is a whole other story, as you're stuck with the people around you, and SA will happen.

Basically the mantra is "trans women are women", which is a true statement, but the activists use this language in very manipulative ways at times. Like sports for instance. "Trans women are women" is simply just not a valid argument when it comes to sports, because there are different sub groupings of women, and the activists I think know that they are using manipulative language here to try and prove their point. It's irrelevant that trans women are women when it comes to sports, because women's sports were not created because of anything to do with identity or gender, but rather sex. I think JK Rowling is worried that if she concedes to the points that I have conceded to, about trans women being women or whatever else, that it will just make things easier for the activists to argue for throwing cis women under the bus or not taking their concerns into account because their concerns are going to be taken less seriously, because trans women have the trump card of threatening to kill themselves if we don't give into their demands, and cis women really have no card they can throw down to really compete with that.

The problem with bringing up women being raped in prison by trans women is, well, cis women rape each other in prison fairly regularly. And before you bring up that it’s different because trans women can get impregnated by their rapists, you do know that men can be members of staff in women’s prison, right? And that said men can and frequently do sexually assault female prisoners and get away with it?

It's terrible that male prison guards do that, but you're basically saying, and I definitely don't think you're meaning to sound so harsh, but you basically seem to be implying that since male guards rape female prisoners, therefore it's whatever that prisoners with penises are also raping them and knocking them up. This is just one wrong piled up on top of another, and you're certainly making things even worse for bio females by allowing women with penises, and in some cases women with penises who are sex offenders, into women's prisons. Just because some really bad stuff has already been happening in women's prisons, that doesn't mean we should therefore allow even more harm to be caused to these women just because we think they're thick skinned and can handle it because the male prison guard rapists have already gotten them used to this behaviour and trained up to endure it. And yeah, I certainly don't think you can compare getting fingered by a female prisoner to getting knocked up with a human life inside of you, but what do I know. I'm not a survivor of SA.

(June 5, 2022 at 1:18 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: It's terrible that male prison guards do that, but you're basically saying, and I definitely don't think you're meaning to sound so harsh, but you basically seem to be implying that since male guards rape female prisoners, therefore it's whatever that prisoners with penises are also raping them and knocking them up. This is just one wrong piled up on top of another, and you're certainly making things even worse for bio females by allowing women with penises, and in some cases women with penises who are sex offenders, into women's prisons. Just because some really bad stuff has already been happening in women's prisons, that doesn't mean we should therefore allow even more harm to be caused to these women just because we think they're thick skinned and can handle it because the male prison guard rapists have already gotten them used to this behaviour and trained up to endure it. And yeah, I certainly don't think you can compare getting fingered by a female prisoner to getting knocked up with a human life inside of you, but what do I know. I'm not a survivor of SA.

Transgender females (especially, if they are taking hormones) are incapable, physically, of rape or even sexual assault.  Are you suggesting that transgender females sentenced to prison be confined with biological male prisoners?  If not, where do they go to serve their sentences?

(June 5, 2022 at 1:30 pm)Jehanne Wrote:

(June 5, 2022 at 1:18 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: It's terrible that male prison guards do that, but you're basically saying, and I definitely don't think you're meaning to sound so harsh, but you basically seem to be implying that since male guards rape female prisoners, therefore it's whatever that prisoners with penises are also raping them and knocking them up. This is just one wrong piled up on top of another, and you're certainly making things even worse for bio females by allowing women with penises, and in some cases women with penises who are sex offenders, into women's prisons. Just because some really bad stuff has already been happening in women's prisons, that doesn't mean we should therefore allow even more harm to be caused to these women just because we think they're thick skinned and can handle it because the male prison guard rapists have already gotten them used to this behaviour and trained up to endure it. And yeah, I certainly don't think you can compare getting fingered by a female prisoner to getting knocked up with a human life inside of you, but what do I know. I'm not a survivor of SA.

Transgender females (especially, if they are taking hormones) are incapable, physically, of rape or even sexual assault.  Are you suggesting that transgender females sentenced to prison be confined with biological male prisoners?  If not, where do they go to serve their sentences?

You don't need to be taking hormones or get any surgeries to be considered trans by law, and what the heck do you mean they are not even capable of sexual assault. Something like a pat on the butt or touching a breast is sexual assault. They can finger people, or use an object. There are plenty of ways to sexually assault a person other than actual sex.

It would be nice if trans women were all able to be housed together in male prisons in a particular unit to be kept safer, if that's doable, or to keep them in a ward with older folks or people less likely to be violent.

(June 5, 2022 at 1:18 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote:

(June 4, 2022 at 5:39 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: The problem with bringing up women being raped in prison by trans women is, well, cis women rape each other in prison fairly regularly. And before you bring up that it’s different because trans women can get impregnated by their rapists, you do know that men can be members of staff in women’s prison, right? And that said men can and frequently do sexually assault female prisoners and get away with it?

It's terrible that male prison guards do that, but you're basically saying, and I definitely don't think you're meaning to sound so harsh, but you basically seem to be implying that since male guards rape female prisoners, therefore it's whatever that prisoners with penises are also raping them and knocking them up. This is just one wrong piled up on top of another, and you're certainly making things even worse for bio females by allowing women with penises, and in some cases women with penises who are sex offenders, into women's prisons. Just because some really bad stuff has already been happening in women's prisons, that doesn't mean we should therefore allow even more harm to be caused to these women just because we think they're thick skinned and can handle it because the male prison guard rapists have already gotten them used to this behaviour and trained up to endure it. And yeah, I certainly don't think you can compare getting fingered by a female prisoner to getting knocked up with a human life inside of you, but what do I know. I'm not a survivor of SA.

I'm saying that if you're worried about women getting sexually assaulted in prisons, you're worrying about the wrong fucking culprits. It's sort of analogous to that one time Tucker Carlson claimed that the Potomac is so unclean because immigrants keep littering in it and not because of all the other problems.