(July 5, 2022 at 4:36 pm)weaponoffreedom Wrote: Thanks for your semi respectful reply............entropy is the second law, in that it is continually expanding, just like the universe.  Review the first.

The heavens and earth is not our planet and heaven.......it refers to everything you can touch, and everything you can't.  Research this.

Genesis means exactly what it says, not what you imagine it says.  It is talking about the Earth and the Sky - all of creation as far as the ancient mind understood it.

Light.  Matter.  One must come first, or they come to exist at the same time.  3 choices.  If someone gets it right, God must exist?

I'm actually on the "same time" bandwagon.  Blackbody radiation from the start of a transparent universe was considerably after the Big Bang, but the photon itself would have come into being at the same time as what we understand as "matter".

If I get it right, and write it in a book about Norse gods, does that prove that Odin exists?

We could, ofc, clear this all up. Perhaps our new friend would like to suggest some portion of magic book that will be the next scientific miracle? Something that's currently being researched but hasn't yet had a successful formal explanation?

(July 5, 2022 at 4:27 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: They didn't know shit, and just like the islamic nuts... as evidenced by the text in magic book above...neither do you.  

First light is 240-300k after the big bang.  Notably absent in the universe, any earth to have any waters to "hover over".  Maybe it was a transposition error.  God told Some Guy the actual order, but he fucked it up and switched them around?  Or, hey, maybe this god just doesn't know what the actual order was and Some Guy credulously but very accurately recorded it's order of events.  This issue reoccurs throughout genesis.  Either way, those are two possibilities, assuming a god, that magic book ended up in the state it is today.

Frankly, I'm not sure how we go from "some guys knew some shit" to "therefore god exists" - but I wouldn't want to risk the second bit by granting the first right or wrong-making ability...particularly if magic book was going to be my case example.  We either do or don't believe that the scientific accuracy of a magic book is indicative of whether the god of that magic book exists - but, if so, then the scientific inaccuracy of a magic book would suggest what about the god of that magic book?

going from one point of view to the other in one step is not possible, I am merely expressing the question I asked myself, which led me to more questions.  To the "magic book" question.......is your question: if the book is inaccurate, what does that say about GOD?

Understand, that my opinion is not based on "the magic book" itself, but on its writers and their first entry.  And how they knew.  


Later on, in a conversation with my daughter, we were talking about Thor, and his part in the Marvel Movies, especially in the Avengers.  Specifically, we spoke of the scene where as Thor had to restart the star in order to form his new Thanos killing weapon.....Remember that?  Anyway, I got me thinking the same thing.  See, the name of Thor's hammer is Mjolnir.  It was made of a URU METAL, a type of enchanted material like "unobtainium".  I found it interesting that the Norse knew that a star would have immense power, the kind of power that you could make an unearthly weapon.  How did they know it?  Just a good guess to I suppose.

-and if it turns out that they didn't know - that would mean what for the gods of their magic books?

Norse myths are a fun point of comparison - I actually used one the last time someone went down a similar line of rationalization on the board. They'll be back to do it again, always are - you might find that interesting as a chance to see it "from the outside" - as in some nut saying the same thing, which, for whatever reason and just as in the case of their "lucky guess", you'll be as unlikely as me to find persuasive.

(July 5, 2022 at 4:46 pm)HappySkeptic Wrote:

(July 5, 2022 at 4:36 pm)weaponoffreedom Wrote: Thanks for your semi respectful reply............entropy is the second law, in that it is continually expanding, just like the universe.  Review the first.

The heavens and earth is not our planet and heaven.......it refers to everything you can touch, and everything you can't.  Research this.

Genesis means exactly what it says, not what you imagine it says.  It is talking about the Earth and the Sky - all of creation as far as the ancient mind understood it.

Light.  Matter.  One must come first, or they come to exist at the same time.  3 choices.  If someone gets it right, God must exist?

I'm actually on the "same time" bandwagon.  Blackbody radiation from the start of a transparent universe was considerably after the Big Bang, but the photon itself would have come into being at the same time as what we understand as "matter".

If I get it right, and write it in a book about Norse gods,  does that prove that Odin exists?

No not really, but funny you bring up the norse, as i repied to another member with a norse story, kind of..........read it if possible.

You seem to be a smart person......but this particular example is how I came to question how everything came together, as vague as it may seem.  it was not my "eureka moment", that came long after much more investigation aswell as other things.

I suppose you do not believe in GOD?

Here is the thing, I don't pretend to have all the answers, and those that do, are wrong.  I was an atheist, grew up in Las Vegas, son of a casino executive, and an ex gun runner mother.  Grandmother was a prostitute, cousins were strippers, and drug dealers\makers.  You name it, I seen it. 

So I am not coming to this site, professing perfection or anything to that point.  Just sharing a question that sent me looking for more answers, and more answers I found.  I hope that some here are receptive to the question of "what if i am wrong", just like I did.

Sometimes a wrong answer can lead to more questions - which appears to have been the case in your case, as you describe it.

(July 5, 2022 at 4:49 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: We could, ofc, clear this all up.  Perhaps our new friend would like to suggest some portion of magic book that will be the next scientific miracle?  Something that's currently being researched but hasn't yet had a successful formal explanation?

I am sorry, but dont type that fast, and dont know what OFC means.

I am not a profit, or profess to be, just telling a story of a question I asked myself, that led me down a path that brought me from atheism, to something else.  As far as the bible goes, it is not at all a cornerstone of my faith, burn the thing for all I care.

But that is the problem with the bible and using it as a "tell all be all".  You are right, how come they always come after the fact and say "ahah" its says that right there.  I get it completely.  

There are many other scientific reasons why I have come to this conclusion.

I get that, it's a testimonial. In that testimonial you're telling me that this question you asked yourself -and got completely wrong- lead you down a path that ended in you believing in a god. What would you describe as the cornerstone of your faith in god?

(July 5, 2022 at 4:49 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: We could, ofc, clear this all up.  Perhaps our new friend would like to suggest some portion of magic book that will be the next scientific miracle?  Something that's currently being researched but hasn't yet had a successful formal explanation?

Well, beyond the thing that I already mentioned, the first law of thermodynamics, that something cannot come from nothing..........there are many things that science cannot explain.

Do you know the first law of thermodynamics?  Look it up.

Anyway, to your question of other things "currently being researched"..........well first thing that comes to mind is the relationship between DNA, amino acids, and proteins.  You can research for yourself, since it seems anything I will say is ridiculous, and not taken with an open mind.

If the first law of thermodynamics were going to cause me to believe in a god, it would have done so long before now. I'm interested in why you would pick genetics. Do you not believe the colored sticks theory of animal husbandry clearly described in that very same magic book?