(July 5, 2022 at 5:23 pm)weaponoffreedom Wrote: Well, beyond the thing that I already mentioned, the first law of thermodynamics, that something cannot come from nothing..........there are many things that science cannot explain.

Do you know the first law of thermodynamics?  Look it up.

Anyway, to your question of other things "currently being researched"..........well first thing that comes to mind is the relationship between DNA, amino acids, and proteins.  You can research for yourself, since it seems anything I will say is ridiculous, and not taken with an open mind.

You seem to have gone down the "We are ignorant, therefore God" rabbit hole.

The first law of thermodynamics holds in the universe with its current laws (we think).  It is not clear that it holds in the early universe.

Perhaps you don't know that the total energy of the universe may be exactly zero?  If so, something can come from nothing, at lease energy-wise.

As for "what existed before the Big Bang", that may be a nonsensical question (as the forward arrow of time may not exist then), or it may be something we figure out in the future.

If your answer for "what started it all" were answered, would you still believe in God?  Basing a religious belief on our ignorance of a question is not theologically sound, and has always proven to be fruitless, as we always find out new answers.

I think you believe in a God not because of logic, but because of emotion.  It is true for most people.  You then search for (wrong) "proofs" to justify your emotional belief.

(July 5, 2022 at 5:21 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I get that, it's a testimonial.  In that testimonial you're telling me that this question you asked yourself -and got completely wrong- lead you down a path that ended in you believing in a god.  What would you describe as the cornerstone of your faith in god?

How are you so sure I got it wrong?  What proof do you have? None None None..................you have faith in the science that I am wrong.  Either way, science is full of mistakes, as a matter of fact, science by definition is best guess, and I would go as far to say, that science is 99.9% wrong, until it is right.......and then maybe not exactly right.  An example of this is the discovery of microwaves, you know, that hot pocket cooking device?  No really, real microwaves.  They were discovered as a mistake with the development of radar.  Poor guy had a chocolate bar in his pocket that melted when he was testing a radar system...............HOT POCKET COOKER!
There are endless examples of how science gets things wrong.......Scientists though the earth was flat, Are you a flat earther?  The theory of the "Aether" is being relooked at in recent years, due to the conflict between quantum mechanics and general relativity.

Call my example wrong, sure, lets say that it was, does that change the quest?  I saw a inconsistency with the info and looked further.  What dont you understand about that?

I suppose you think a cornerstone is a thing, like a tangible thing, like the bible, or a cross?  My cornerstone is doing the most with what was given to me, and doing the best I can as much as I can, and not continuing to do the worst.  That is what it is supposed to be.

(July 5, 2022 at 5:43 pm)HappySkeptic Wrote:

(July 5, 2022 at 5:23 pm)weaponoffreedom Wrote: Well, beyond the thing that I already mentioned, the first law of thermodynamics, that something cannot come from nothing..........there are many things that science cannot explain.

Do you know the first law of thermodynamics?  Look it up.

Anyway, to your question of other things "currently being researched"..........well first thing that comes to mind is the relationship between DNA, amino acids, and proteins.  You can research for yourself, since it seems anything I will say is ridiculous, and not taken with an open mind.

You seem to have gone down the "We are ignorant, therefore God" rabbit hole.

The first law of thermodynamics holds in the universe with its current laws (we think).  It is not clear that it holds in the early universe.

Perhaps you don't know that the total energy of the universe may be exactly zero?  If so, something can come from nothing, at lease energy-wise.

As for "what existed before the Big Bang", that may be a nonsensical question (as the forward arrow of time may not exist then), or it may be something we figure out in the future.

If your answer for "what started it all" were answered, would you still believe in God?  Basing a religious belief on our ignorance of a question is not theologically sound, and has always proven to be fruitless, as we always find out new answers.

I think you believe in a God not because of logic, but because of emotion.  It is true for most people.  You then search for (wrong) "proofs" to justify your emotional belief.

Ok.  Thanks for the psych evaluation.  If you knew me, you would not feel that way.   Yes the whole "beginning arguement" is a non starter, it is used by those who do want to argue..............So what about the law of angular momentum?  What about DNA, and amino acids, and proteins, and their relationship to each other?

I am not looking for reasons to to believe, not needed.

You must have already thought that the current scientific consensus was accurate if you also believed that those hut dwellers, as you put it, got something right. Something that might indicate or lead to a god. I did call your example wrong, because it is wrong, both in point of fact as a story in a magic book that doesn't accurately describe any part of the current scientific understanding, and as an issue in anthropology of what those people knew.

You also appear to be laboring under the impression that there's an inconsistency you've discovered when..in fact, you've not.

The cornerstone of your faith in god references a god zero times, and it's probably safe to say that many people who also believe that they should do the most with what they've been given, and do the best they can as much as they can, and not continue to do the worst, are atheists. This strongly suggests that your belief in god is explained by and through something else. Not this, and certainly not the last sacrificial example either.

I strongly suspect that the actual cornerstones of a great many peoples faith in gods are things they never describe or offer up to others for scrutiny, and certainly not here at AF. That's based on anecdotal data, my own experience here having these exact conversations over and over.

(July 5, 2022 at 5:57 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: You must have already thought that the current scientific consensus was accurate if you also believed that those hut dwellers, as you put it, got something right.  Something that might indicate or lead to a god.  I did call your example wrong, because it is wrong, both in point of fact as a story in a magic book that doesn't accurately describe any part of the current scientific understanding, and as an issue in anthropology of what those people knew.  

You also appear to be laboring under the impression that there's an inconsistency you've discovered when..in fact, you've not.  

The cornerstone of your faith in god references a god zero times, and it's probably safe to say that many people who also believe that they should do the most with what they've been given, and do the best they can as much as they can, and not continue to do the worst, are atheists.  This strongly suggests that your belief in god is explained by and through something else.  Not this, and certainly not the last sacrificial example either.

Thanks also for the psych eval.

Did you like being a leg, or was that just the limit of your abilities?

Can't think of a more crucial profession. That I enjoyed it was a pleasant bonus.

So, first law of thermodynamics...the idea that the authors of magic book knew stuff.... and just being a decent person in general. These aren't the sorts of things that would cause me to revisit the notion of gods.

Quote: TThe first law of thermodynamics, is that something cannot come from anything

No, it isn't and even if it were that wouldn't make any sense.

Quote:Scientists thought the earth was flat, Are you a flat earther?

No, they didn't. That's a myth.

Quote:The theory of the "Aether" is being relooked at in recent years, due to the conflict between quantum mechanics and general relativity.

You realize the Aether being proposed isn't like the Aether of old

(July 5, 2022 at 6:18 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Can't think of a more crucial profession.  That I enjoyed it was a pleasant bonus.  

So, first law of thermodynamics...the idea that the authors of magic book knew stuff.... and just being a decent person in general.   These aren't the sorts of things that would cause me to revisit the notion of gods.

So why did you no take the profession further, why just stop at being a leg?  Or were you an armored leg?  Did you not have the guts or faith you could?



There is only one GOD.......

The First Law of Thermodynamics says energy cannot be created or destroyed.  Matter is a form of stored energy.   Nobody has ever taken nothing and made energy or matter.  I challenge science to make either. 

Even with all of our advanced knowledge of DNA and living things, nobody has ever gone into a laboratory and made even a simple cell from the raw chemicals.  Yet we have been told it happened accidentally.  I challenge science to make a cell

(Experiments done by Redi and Pasteur) proves that life only comes from life

The basic laws of physics are so finely tuned that if any of the fundamental forces was a little weaker, or stronger, our universe could not exist.  (Gravity, Electromagnetism, Strong Nuclear Force, Weak Nuclear Force)   Some of the most famous scientists in the world are well aware of this fine-tuning.

Even to this day, nobody really knows what electrons are made up of, or why they are stable particles.    Nobody even knows what is going on inside the atoms which causes gravity.  Sure, they have "drawing" but ask a phyzzzzzist, they are a theoretical drawing,
because they dont know what atoms actually look like, or really how they work.

Most of the predictions at the LHC have been absolutely wrong, by their own statements ( admin wont let me post a link)

can science do these things, make matter or energy, or life, no.

a limitless amount of chaos does not create limitless order

Bill Gates says that  “DNA is like a computer program but far, far more advanced than any software ever created.”   How is that possible?  without a creator?

These are just a few things.

You asked in an earlier part, for a prophetic sign, unfortunatley, there is only one that I can say for an absolute certainty that has not happened yet, and you dont want to see it, and not have faith.