(September 19, 2022 at 5:14 am)Ahriman Wrote:

(September 19, 2022 at 5:07 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: If God wanted to forgive our sins, why didn’t he simply do so? Seriously, proclaiming ‘Thou art forgiven’ seems a lot more Godlike than kinda-sorta-but-not-really sacrificing himself to himself in a carnival of blood and torture that would make Dario Argento gulp with disbelief.

Boru

Yeah, almost makes you think it's not real. doesn't it? But that's impossible, of course it's real, right? Heh.......

You’re such an edge lord!

(September 19, 2022 at 5:14 am)TAhriman Wrote:

(September 19, 2022 at 5:07 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: If God wanted to forgive our sins, why didn’t he simply do so? Seriously, proclaiming ‘Thou art forgiven’ seems a lot more Godlike than kinda-sorta-but-not-really sacrificing himself to himself in a carnival of blood and torture that would make Dario Argento gulp with disbelief.

Boru

Yeah, almost makes you think it's not real. doesn't it? But that's impossible, of course it's real, right? Heh.......

It’s easier for a thug (god) to just kill kill kill instead of forgiving when it screws everything up and is disgusted with what it created.  

Genesis 6:6
New International Version

6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled.

Jesus is supposed to have said that we will know his followers by their love. I think that his real followers are rarely seen online, by that metric.

(September 17, 2022 at 3:51 pm)h311inac311 Wrote: If men are free to invent their own meaning and assign their own value to the words right and wrong what is stopping the gambler from telling his wife that gambling is good?
What will prevent the murderer from telling you that he is a more evolved being which has the right to naturally select his victims for death in the hopes of wiping out their gene pool?
What is stopping a corrupt mind from aiding the destruction of society?

You see I ask these questions because unlike you I believe that moral good takes effort, inspiration, and endurance. Sometimes you have to turn down offers of money, fame and sexual pleasure in order to withstand corruption. Especially if you want to be in a position of power or influence. Jesus spent most of his time in conflict with the religious authorities of his day and I consider the Catholic church to be the prime example of what it means to be a modern day Pharisee.

Ok, first off, I'm confused by your logic. Everybody invents their own meanings and assign their own value to words, even if they subscribe to a specific religious belief system. Obviously Christians, for example, are not a monolith. There are different sects, and even within sects individuals believe what they believe and discard the rest.

Secondly, every example you chose here can be proven to be "wrong" on a secular basis, no Christian teachings required. You don't need religion to teach you the idea that we are all fundamentally alike. We all share the same sort of conscious experience, and therefore it is crystal clear that you do not want to say or do something that causes suffering in another. IT's not a religious teaching, it's a demonstrable fact of life. This is Jesus' golden rule, but he wasn't the first to say it and he won't be the last. This means that...

• ...murder is obviously wrong, despite the dumb natural selection argument you used as an example. 
  
• ...goading somebody into doing something that will ultimately hurt them, like gambling addiction, is obviously wrong. Also there's nothing in your example that makes the gambler's wife suddenly okay with gambling? lol. He can say it's good all day, she can still divorce him before he bets their house on an NFL game.
  
• The last example you used is vague and makes no real sense. Also wouldn't it be even easier for a corrupt mind to aid the destruction of society if he did it under the guise of a widely-practiced religion?
  

Seriously man, Christianity is overrated. You don't need to pledge yourself to some non-existent god to have a fleshed out system of ethics. Basic human empathy works just fine. Funny enough, I find that many Christians here in the U.S. seem to have a profound lack of empathy towards others. They've been conditioned this way by politics.

(September 20, 2022 at 10:06 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Jesus is supposed to have said that we will know his followers by their love. I think that his real followers are rarely seen online, by that metric.

There’s no better hate then xian love

To paraphrase Bill and Ted, just try to be excellent to one another.

"Prioritize others above yourself."

I check my moral virtue on a regular basis. It is maximized (I’m as morally virtuous as I’m gonna get).

Boru

Well, as the lone representative of Christian theology in this discussion I will do my best to address at least some of the points that were presented here.

Fake Messiah made what I would like to call an appeal to the Pharisee, or and appeal to the Talmud. When did Jesus order an army to physically kill people for the holy land?

Alot of you are going down a similar route with your thoughts as well. Making an appeal not to the evil within scripture itself, but within those who proclaim themselves to be spiritually wealthy. Indeed, there are many who boast that they are indeed better informed and more goodly than others. Even to such a degree as to avoid any responsibility towards the lost and down-trodden.

One of you basically retold the story of the Good Samaritan.

Overall it seems that we're appealing to hypocrisy within the church, that our actions don't match what we say our intentions are. And I fully agree with you, the American church, for one thing, is far too concerned with mammon than with encouraging people to actually help the poor. I suppose that if I were a minister I wouldn't even tell my congregated to donate to my church (especially if our expenses were more than covered for) Instead I would encourage them to buy food or blankets and hand them out to actual homeless people.

Nudger noticed that Jesus didn't live his life for pleasure or earthly gain and asked if these were bad pursuits? No, in fact I'm all for the pursuit of life liberty and even happiness. Unlike many "suffering servants" within our modern church I think that Joy is lacking in today's interpretation of the perfected Christian life. Instead we have duty, commandment, sin, guilt and obligation. But if one fails to sharpen their axe first then they will be all but required to take pride in the amount of strength required to chop wood with it.

"The bluntess of the blade makes me stronger than you." - They will say. This is how I view many of these materialistic communion collectors. Sure they don't all drive Lamborghinis, but some of them will look down on the fatherless and the widow for suffering from mental, or emotional problems.

Proclaiming yourself to be a Christian is one thing, actually living out the morals of Christ is entirely different. It doesn't mean giving up the pursuit of earthly joy or happiness, as Paul would say, "I have become all things unto all people that I might win over as many as possible." It simply isn't easy to choose to value what is best for others over yourself. That's why most people just keep their nose to the grindstone and make little effort to help anyone else along the way.

"Why didn't Jesus just forgive us" or "why isn't perma auto forgive active on all peoples at all times?" Well first of all Metacognia is a pre-requisite to follow the way the Truth and the Life. If a man offers you a free gift but you don't accept it to whom does this gift belong?

(October 10, 2022 at 12:58 pm)h311inac311 Wrote: Well, as the lone representative of Christian theology in this discussion I will do my best to address at least some of the points that were presented here.

Fake Messiah made what I would like to call an appeal to the Pharisee, or and appeal to the Talmud. When did Jesus order an army to physically kill people for the holy land?

Alot of you are going down a similar route with your thoughts as well. Making an appeal not to the evil within scripture itself, but within those who proclaim themselves to be spiritually wealthy. Indeed, there are many who boast that they are indeed better informed and more goodly than others. Even to such a degree as to avoid any responsibility towards the lost and down-trodden.

One of you basically retold the story of the Good Samaritan.

Overall it seems that we're appealing to hypocrisy within the church, that our actions don't match what we say our intentions are. And I fully agree with you, the American church, for one thing, is far too concerned with mammon than with encouraging people to actually help the poor. I suppose that if I were a minister I wouldn't even tell my congregated to donate to my church (especially if our expenses were more than covered for) Instead I would encourage them to buy food or blankets and hand them out to actual homeless people.

Nudger noticed that Jesus didn't live his life for pleasure or earthly gain and asked if these were bad pursuits? No, in fact I'm all for the pursuit of life liberty and even happiness. Unlike many "suffering servants" within our modern church I think that Joy is lacking in today's interpretation of the perfected Christian life. Instead we have duty, commandment, sin, guilt and obligation. But if one fails to sharpen their axe first then they will be all but required to take pride in the amount of strength required to chop wood with it.

"The bluntess of the blade makes me stronger than you." - They will say. This is how I view many of these materialistic communion collectors. Sure they don't all drive Lamborghinis, but some of them will look down on the fatherless and the widow for suffering from mental, or emotional problems.

Proclaiming yourself to be a Christian is one thing, actually living out the morals of Christ is entirely different. It doesn't mean giving up the pursuit of earthly joy or happiness, as Paul would say, "I have become all things unto all people that I might win over as many as possible." It simply isn't easy to choose to value what is best for others over yourself. That's why most people just keep their nose to the grindstone and make little effort to help anyone else along the way.

"Why didn't Jesus just forgive us" or "why isn't perma auto forgive active on all peoples at all times?" Well first of all Metacognia is a pre-requisite to follow the way the Truth and the Life. If a man offers you a free gift but you don't accept it to whom does this gift belong?

(Bold mine)

Not in so many words, of course (and I’m sure as Canby that you’ll claim it to be metaphorical), but most of Matthew 10 seems to exhort the Jesusites to fight physically and unceasingly for the Kingdom of God.

Boru