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Free will and the necessary evil
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Prove to me that God really exists, then I might be interested in what you have to say about free will. Until then, this whole discussion is a waste of time.
"The world is my country; all of humanity are my brethren; and to do good deeds is my religion." (Thomas Paine)
RE: Free will and the necessary evil
November 2, 2022 at 8:14 pm
(This post was last modified: November 2, 2022 at 8:15 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
The two things aren't obviously related, such that there being one means that there is the other, or one being absent means the other is absent. As with every other thing that people stick onto gods, it stands or falls on it's own merit without regard for any other premise or assumption about some other thing.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
If there's no free will, doesn't that mean we can only do what we're supposed to do with no choice in the matter?
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter  (November 2, 2022 at 8:21 pm)Tomato Wrote: If there's no free will, doesn't that mean we can only do what we're supposed to do with no choice in the matter? The brain is not some input/output machine; it's much more complex with myriads of internal processing. Presume that free will exists all the while being cognizant that it probably does not exist. RE: Free will and the necessary evil
November 2, 2022 at 11:23 pm
(This post was last modified: November 2, 2022 at 11:24 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(November 2, 2022 at 8:21 pm)Tomato Wrote: If there's no free will, doesn't that mean we can only do what we're supposed to do with no choice in the matter? No, there may be no "supposed to" and not every choice is free by anyone's measure. Supposed to's are in the realm of fatalism where choice is irrelevant even if it is free.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
 RE: Free will and the necessary evil
November 2, 2022 at 11:52 pm
(This post was last modified: November 2, 2022 at 11:55 pm by HankMoody316.)
LinuxGal Wrote:Free will is not a scientific concept. There can only be evidence of what we did choose, never of counterfactual outcomes. Physical laws proceed deterministically, with occasional stochastic interruptions due to quantum effects. In either case, human will, whatever that is, can have no influence. (sic my emphasis added) I will copy/paste what 2 mathematician told me in response to my claims about music, math, and reality. Here was my claim about music and math: "Thanks, this allows me to realize some strange, spooky stuff about reality. It's amazing the power of math and how reality seems to be easier to understand once you internalize some advanced math concepts, such as set theory or sequences." Mathematician "A" responded: "No, most of the physical world can be modeled by mathematics. ¶ The idea that people are amazed that music can be modeled by Math is confusing to me. I wouldn’t say that music is Math. Yes, like most of the physical world it follows mathematical patterns." Mathematician "B" responded: "Just be careful to realize that math does not always correspond with physical reality. As in, just because you can define a mathematical concept doesn't mean that the concept exists in the real world or implies anything at all about the real world by itself.
Therefore, let us glory, yea, we will glory in the Lord; yes, we will rejoice, for our joy is full; yea, we will praise our God forever. Behold, who can glory too much in the Lord? Yea, who can say too much of his great power, and of his mercy, and of his long-suffering towards to children of men? Behold, I say unto you, I cannot say the smallest part which I feel. 🙏
What strange and spooky stuff did you realize?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(November 3, 2022 at 12:13 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: What strange and spooky stuff did you realize? Everything is out of the ordinary from the right perspective.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
If so, the extraordinary is in fact ordinary - somehow I doubt that's the kind of wonder we'll hear about. I tend to think something like that myself, but I always wonder what other peoples ideas of strange and spooky amount to.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
If you can conceptualize it, there's little room for wonder. That's the boat in which I find myself.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter |
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