Correct, the system of logic is the arbitrator of what is or is not "logical", your repeated attempts to game the system have been exposed (and explained to you, repeatedly..51 pages worth at current count). This arbitrator finds your arguments lacking, regardless of what any of us (myself, Deist, or yourself) believes.

Had you argued that you believe that only god can account for such and such, you wouldn't find yourself in this position. Couldn't control yourself though could you? You feel so hot with christfire that to even suggest that these are only your beliefs is equivalent to blasphemy, and you don't want to wind up in the bad place. Better men than yourself or I have argued these points and the conclusion that has been reached is that there is not, as of yet, an argument for the existence of your god that holds water. You may one day be the guy who finds it (if your god exists). You simply haven't yet. What you've offered thusfar is tired old shit. Give it a rest, after all these years it deserves R&R.

(December 2, 2011 at 9:12 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: Again, your point is irrelevant, “good” is just a term to describe God’s actions, we could have described them in some other language.

So you define "good" as "what God wills" and that's how you know God is good because God wills what God wills and we know that what God wills is good because God is good and God can't be capable of doing something that isn't good because God is good and so we know...

Take a drink.

Quote:Yet, they all use the same Bible, sounds like a problem with the thousands of different people, not the Bible itself.

No True Scotsman

Take a drink.

Here you are assuming that my making fun of you is my argument. I'm making fun of you because your arguments have already been reduced to the absurd.....and yet you continue repeating them. As if repetition would somehow salvage them. There's a name for that as well, Google it. Believe you're the one claiming to be some sort of shit-house authority on logic, which is yet another thing that I'm laughing at you for (due to your habit of posting complete garbage).

(December 2, 2011 at 9:17 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Correct, the system of logic is the arbitrator of what is or is not "logical", your repeated attempts to game the system have been exposed (and explained to you, repeatedly..51 pages worth at current count).

Merely calling someone’s axiomatic beliefs circular is actually only exposing your complete ignoarance of how logical reasoning works, it has no reflection on my completely valid logical system of beliefs, I have spent the last 51 pages trying to get this through your head.

Quote: Had you argued that you believe that only god can account for such and such, you wouldn't find yourself in this position.

Knowledge is justified belief, the fact that I can account for such things given my worldview and you cannot given your worldview justifies my belief, thus I know that only God can account for such things.

Quote: Couldn't control yourself though could you? You feel so hot with christfire that to even suggest that these are only your beliefs is equivalent to blasphemy, and you don't want to wind up in the bad place.

Blasphemy no, irrational yes.

Quote: Better men than yourself or I have argued these points and the conclusion that has been reached is that there is not, as of yet, an argument for the existence of your god that holds water. You may one day be the guy who finds it (if your god exists). You simply haven't yet. What you've offered thusfar is tired old shit. Give it a rest, after all these years it deserves R&R.

Thte fact you can’t refute my argument is no reason for me to give it a rest, I will continue to present it until you find a way to refute it. Considering no atheist philosopher has been successful to date, I don’t have much faith that you of all people will be the first to find a way, unless of course you believe in miracles.

(December 2, 2011 at 9:51 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: So you define "good" as "what God wills" and that's how you know God is good because God wills what God wills and we know that what God wills is good because God is good and God can't be capable of doing something that isn't good because God is good and so we know...

Nope, everything God wills is good because God’s will is consistent with His character and His character is the ultimate standard of Good. Just like the standard meter stick is a meter long because it is the ultimate standard as to what a meter is. I am really not sure why this concept of standards is so difficult for you to grasp, we use it every day.

Quote:No True Scotsman

I hope you realize that tossing out the name of a random fallacy adds nothing to your position; you must demonstrate how the fallacy applies.
It was actually quite logical what I said, but it may have flown right over your head. If you separate ten people and give them all the same Bible and they come up with ten different interpretations the people are the variable not the Bible. So the interpretations are the result of the people, not the Bible, which is exactly what I said.

(December 2, 2011 at 10:04 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I'm making fun of you because your arguments have already been reduced to the absurd.....

The following lesson in logic will cost you 5.95; I accept all major credit cards and paypal.

A reductio ad absurdum
requires an actual logical demonstration in order to be valid. This means you would have to actually deny the consequent of my logical argument. Since this has not been done by your or anyone else on here, making the claim that you have reduced anything to absurdity is in itself…well absurd. I hope this was helpful!

(December 5, 2011 at 8:31 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote:

(December 2, 2011 at 9:51 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: So you define "good" as "what God wills" and that's how you know God is good because God wills what God wills and we know that what God wills is good because God is good and God can't be capable of doing something that isn't good because God is good and so we know...

Nope, everything God wills is good because God’s will is consistent with His character and His character is the ultimate standard of Good. Just like the standard meter stick is a meter long because it is the ultimate standard as to what a meter is. I am really not sure why this concept of standards is so difficult for you to grasp, we use it every day.

Wow your "god" has a strange way of defining what "good" is if he is the ultimate standard of good. I personally have never equated killing millions of people as "good."

http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/...bible.html

But maybe my definition of a good character is quite different than your god's definition. Let's see how Webster defines good. They show many definitions with these two seeming to be most applicable to a person's character as a "good character" like you mentioned:

1: a (1) : of a favorable character or tendency <good news>

2: a (1) : virtuous, right, commendable <a good person> <good conduct> (2) : kind, benevolent <good intentions>

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/good

Somehow, killing millions is virtuous, right, kind, benevolent, and commendable?

(December 5, 2011 at 9:01 pm)Heather Wrote: Wow your "god" has a strange way of defining what "good" is if he is the ultimate standard of good. I personally have never equated killing millions of people as "good."

According to what other ultimate standard would it not be good?

Quote: But maybe my definition of a good character is quite different than your god's definition. Let's see how Webster defines good. They show many definitions with these two seeming to be most applicable to a person's character as a "good character" like you mentioned:

God killed those people long before Noah Webster was ever born, so you are going to have to use a different standard for good if you are going to try and apply it to God.

Quote: Somehow, killing millions is virtuous, right, kind, benevolent, and commendable?

…if it was to work out all things for the benefit and redemption of His people, then sure it was. How do you know that being virtuous and kind are actually good qualities though? Simply because Noah Webster said so?

Ok so let's see how the bible defines "good":

"Definition of a Good Work:
Good works are “good” things (according to the Bible definition of good) which are
done heartily in obedience and love to God, for his glory, in an attitude of faith and thanksgiving
(Col 3:23, John 15:14 & Mat 28:20, John 14:15, 1 Cor 10:31, Rom 14:23 & 3 John
1:5, Col 3:17)."

Well, I guess every mass genocide that has ever occurred for the purpose of obedience and love to him was a "good" action. That clears it all up. Pretty screwed up god IMO.

(December 9, 2011 at 9:31 am)Heather Wrote: Ok so let's see how the bible defines "good":

"Definition of a Good Work:
Good works are “good” things (according to the Bible definition of good) which are
done heartily in obedience and love to God, for his glory, in an attitude of faith and thanksgiving
(Col 3:23, John 15:14 & Mat 28:20, John 14:15, 1 Cor 10:31, Rom 14:23 & 3 John
1:5, Col 3:17)."

Well, I guess every mass genocide that has ever occurred for the purpose of obedience and love to him was a "good" action. That clears it all up. Pretty screwed up god IMO.

[sarcasm]
Oh, there you atheists go again, opening the Bible and reading what it says. That's not how you determine that Yahweh is good. You're trying to judge goodness by his actions and the things he commands. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

We define good as consistent with Yahweh's nature and that's how we know Yahweh is good because Yahweh always wills what Yahweh always wills. So if Yahweh willed a genocide, that genocide must be good because it was Yahweh's will. Duh!
[/sarcasm]

OK, I feel dirty now. I'm going to take a shower.

Oh now I really get it. Thanks for the clarification! As long as god wills it, it is automatically considered a "good" deed. How long has it been since god willed a genocide? He's been kinda hands off lately, huh?

I hope you enjoyed your shower!

(December 9, 2011 at 4:25 pm)Heather Wrote: Oh now I really get it. Thanks for the clarification! As long as god wills it, it is automatically considered a "good" deed. How long has it been since god willed a genocide? He's been kinda hands off lately, huh?

Well, you know how it is with some guys. Getting laid around 2000 years ago helped a lot. Sure, Yahweh was a rageaholic and an abusive bastard but they did just take away his wife "Ashra" and make him the lonely god in Heaven. Understandably, having your worshipers suddenly shift to monotheism can be hard on a deity.