(December 11, 2022 at 7:04 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(December 11, 2022 at 6:24 pm)WinterHold Wrote: It's interconnected; I speak from a globalist perspective; not a nationalistic one.
The "Islamic" society is one entity from Morocco to Afghanistan after all; an issue in Iran echos in Egypt, and issue in Syria echos in Turkey and Yemen, and so on.

Similar to the Yanks creating "Al Qaeda" to battle USSR. The Yanks are globalists too; so they utilize that in their wars.

You can't discuss Iran without discussing the western interventions in the affairs of the country (currently the west is the strongest entity controlling the globe through economy and Nuclear force).

In other words; I'm just saying that most moves has western fingerprints, not due to superiority; but due to de-facto economic & military scale.

Just ask yourself this question and you'll see my point: "where did Ruhollah Khomeini get the cash from to support his movement?".

Ask the same question about any global-domestic event, and you'll understand why I go through the long history. The devil is in the details.

Then by all means, feel free to go apeshit about globalism in some other thread, but don’t use this one to make false accusations about me.

Boru

Get over yourself because nobody even mentioned you; merely used your name to tag the comment written in reply to your word salad.
#note: by "word salad" I literally mean "a salad of words; i.e a collection of words".

(December 12, 2022 at 12:06 am)WinterHold Wrote:

(December 11, 2022 at 7:04 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Then by all means, feel free to go apeshit about globalism in some other thread, but don’t use this one to make false accusations about me.

Boru

Get over yourself because nobody even mentioned you; merely used your name to tag the comment written in reply to your word salad.
#note: by "word salad" I literally mean "a salad of words; i.e a collection of words".

YOU mentioned me, and you accused me of 1) using a straw man to 2) 'forget the deeds of the west'. And I have never, ever, used a word salad (you should look up that term).

That's three false accusations. I understand that your religion permits you to do this, but I'd appreciate it if you'd stop.

Boru

(December 11, 2022 at 11:03 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote:

(December 11, 2022 at 5:25 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: And, for the record, nothing in my post criticized Islam. I was criticizing theocratic governance, which is a different kettle of fish of another colour.

Boru

Is there any genuine split between the two?  

One that doesn't round down to one group believing in the same thing more strongly than another - I mean?

Of course, there is. I have no problem with religionists having views that differ from mine. I would object pretty strongly to having those views codified into law.

And, if we're honest about it, they overwhelming majority of theists would not care to live in a theocracy.

Boru

(December 12, 2022 at 5:19 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(December 11, 2022 at 11:03 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Is there any genuine split between the two?  

One that doesn't round down to one group believing in the same thing more strongly than another - I mean?

Of course, there is. I have no problem with religionists having views that differ from mine. I would object pretty strongly to having those views codified into law.

And, if we're honest about it, they overwhelming majority of theists would not care to live in a theocracy.

Boru

1st phrase: Yes.
2nd phrase: No.
 
   The world has become a place full of people pretending to have a definition of true religion and are willing to support their own “religious view” or sectarian movement in a simultaneous manner. Many of these persons are complete hypocrites who think they can bend and readapt every concept in the world (both religious or political) according to how they think these should be interpreted. There is the disgusting issue of child brides for instance. The practice dates back to the bronze age. It’s a mean for one group of people or clan, to seal an alliance with another clan (or group of people). So the beast solution they can come out with is (sometimes) to marry little children (one being 10 year old, the other being 12 year old) or a child with an adult (6 year old with 28 year old). And in order to be able to do this criminal activity they will bribe a religious “authority” and make him say that such arrangements are “sometimes” appropriate. They are even saying that in front of the cameras now. And that’s exacly what they are saying. They say: “Our religion does approve pedophilia”.
 
So 1) These guys are simply too smart for me and I can’t even start going into how their neurons are working.
 
2) Of course not. How do you let people like that have a say in government. I’d rather live under an absolutist monarchy than to live under the egotic interpretation of religion of some sick / psychologically disturbed individual. This is just B.S. Theocracy belongs to the middle ages and it should stay in the middle ages. In our century it’s nothing but pure insanity. Even the Crusades had a certain logic behind them (the pope wanted to make use of the already existing violence between landlords and direct all this violence to the sacking of the riches of the east / Like the attitude of the Vikings in the 7th century). But theocratic rules of today (Iran+ Afghanistan) are simply insane. They follow no logic, no morality, no goal, no nothing. And in terms of popular support, I have a nice video from the BBC, a nice animation that is also showing the shifting the attitude of religious persons toward the theocratic regime:
 

Another death penalty to a 23 year old young-man because of killing to and injuring two other S.S. (I mean Basij) during the revolt movement. The name is Majidreza Rahnavard. I’m not a specialist but this doesn’t look like the murderer of two and the injurer of two others to me. And they are still talking about “Waging war against God”. How do you wage war on God by the way?

A strange thing about this 2022 Iranian uprising is that Iranian human rights activists and world human rights activists and Iranian journalists living in Iran and Iranian journalists living abroad and foreign journalists related to Iran and human rights do not respond to our messages at all.

There are reported crimes committed against women. We need people to be present in several mafia areas of Tehran and we ask for guidance, but no one cooperates.

There is a team of art graduates made up of hundreds of Anti-women men who play the roles of modern artists and European type serial killers of women and girls.
It seems that Iran's security agencies have hired them years ago to fight against feminism and kill thousands of innocent women and girls according to Islamic teachings.

You do not believe, in some district of Tehran, every day, some Iranian person that connect to CIA and NSA kill many girls.
CIA and NSA has been cheated by employee of security services of Iran.
I remember in forums in first week of spring of syria, people of syria messaged that in syria serial killing had been started, but all western users laughed them, but 6 month later tv and newspapares reported ISIS started serial killing.But we know serial killing had started first week of spring of syria not 6 month later!

Horizon tower and around is ISIS of Iran that all Shia and Bagheri Kani that family of leader of Iran is Leader of ISIS.

(December 12, 2022 at 5:19 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(December 11, 2022 at 11:03 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Is there any genuine split between the two?  

One that doesn't round down to one group believing in the same thing more strongly than another - I mean?

Of course, there is. I have no problem with religionists having views that differ from mine. I would object pretty strongly to having those views codified into law.

There's only one difference that could be relevant, though.  A difference of opinion as to whether or not the laws god himself established would be the best set of laws for humanity.  At some point, we have to recognize that people with genuine beliefs cannot help but differ with secularism on this - and as such, there's no difference between islam..and political islam, except for the level of faith of a given believer.  

Quote:And, if we're honest about it, they overwhelming majority of theists would not care to live in a theocracy.

Boru

I assume the same, but we both know that strongly held beliefs can compel people to politics that run wildly contrary to their own best interest. Personally, I think the idea of a-political islam(or any other theistic faith) - at least a-political enough that it might be compatible with secularism- is actually a secular effort to manufacture and model "the good ones", wholly ignoring the reality of such faiths.

I think these serial killers terrorists , soon or late will attack to women of Europe and USA!

They'd have to shove their way past our domestics to even get a spot at the table. No small feat.