We could refer to the current state of our private prison system - and it's relationship to government, and through that what amounts to a crime, and how long sentences should be. See, the hypothetical private fire dept wouldn't just rake you over the coals - it would spend money for lobbyists to loosen building and fire codes, while also stumping for more new large construction projects to be undertaken, so as to improve the potential for fire.

(December 14, 2022 at 8:41 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(December 14, 2022 at 1:01 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Keeping the government out of our private lives won't draw the dipshits looking to make government so small it can fit inside a uterus and drown a teenage rape victim in the bathtub.

(I did the whole "libertarian" thing when I realized that the gop had left the place I'm at, until I realized it was a front for legalized racism and a wedge meant to continue gifting the gop with unrepresentative authority.  LOL, I still remember when Hannity was a "libertarian" radio shock jock.)

I too am a recovering libertarian. It sounds nice and well on paper until we actually look at what it entails.

"911, what is your emergency? Do you need police, fire, or ambulance?"
"Fire, the house is burning down, and ambulance, at least one burn victim."
"What's your address?"
"911 Astout Drive. Hurry!"
Fire truck rolls up on the scene. Out jumps the crew chief with a card swiper in hand. "Will this be Mastercard, Visa, AMEX, or Discover? Or do you have a bank card?"
"My wallet's in the house, and so is my wife!"
"Sir, calm down. Can you read and sign this payment agreement?" [Crew chief breaks out phone, swipes a couple of times]
Hurriedly signing the agreement, "Will they be okay?!"
"Sir, the agreement explicitly states that results are not guaranteed."

A month later, the $14000 bill comes in for the cost of operations to extinguish the fire. The wife didn't make it out alive.

Your scenario is all too real. A couple from Oklahoma neglected to pay their "fire dues", and when a completely controllable fire broke out in their home, the local fire department showed-up and stood around as the couple ran in and out of their burning home trying to save as many possessions as they could.

Despicable.

(December 14, 2022 at 9:21 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Your scenario is all too real.  A couple from Oklahoma neglected to pay their "fire dues", and when a completely controllable fire broke out in their home, the local fire department showed-up and stood around as the couple ran in and out of their burning home trying to save as many possessions as they could.

Despicable.

Interested to read about this, got a link? My scenario was entirely hypothetical.

(December 14, 2022 at 10:42 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(December 14, 2022 at 9:21 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Your scenario is all too real.  A couple from Oklahoma neglected to pay their "fire dues", and when a completely controllable fire broke out in their home, the local fire department showed-up and stood around as the couple ran in and out of their burning home trying to save as many possessions as they could.

Despicable.

Interested to read about this, got a link? My scenario was entirely hypothetical.

One such incident happened in Tennessee:

No pay, no spray: Firefighters let home burn

I recall reading a change.org petition for a similar incident in Oklahoma, but, I may have confused it with the Tennessee episode.

Don't bind yourself to any ideology.  They may appear to work when nursed through carefully worded hypotheticals, only to fail in reality.  See ideologies as tools in a chest, possible solutions to a problem.  

As much as the GOP likes to be "my way or no way," look at how quickly they became "socialists" handing out free money during the pandemic.  Trump was like, I'll personally sign each check.  That's what gets me, the empty words and posturing, the obstructionism coming from fear that the other side might fix a few things.

(December 15, 2022 at 9:47 am)Ranjr Wrote:  look at how quickly they became "socialists" handing out free money during the pandemic.  Trump was like, I'll personally sign each check.  

I think that was more about Trump and less about the republican party.  Trump is an extreme narcissist and he'll do whatever he thinks will get him praised and if he thinks handing out pandemic stimulus checks will get people to praise him, he'll do it and damn the political consequences.  If the president had been someone like Ted Cruz or Lindsey Graham or Jeb Bush, I don't think that would have happened.

That being said, Trumps biggest impact on politics and America is how he transformed the republican party.  They became less the party of Regan and more the party of Trump.  That's what gave us lunatics like MTG and Boebart and Gaetz and Desantis.  It's turned their media into crackpot conspiracies (even worse than it was before).  It's got their base foaming at the mouth, constantly striking out in fear at some unseeable, vaguely defined, boogeyman enemy that's coming to get them.

(December 15, 2022 at 9:47 am)Ranjr Wrote: Don't bind yourself to any ideology.  They may appear to work when nursed through carefully worded hypotheticals, only to fail in reality.  See ideologies as tools in a chest, possible solutions to a problem.  

As much as the GOP likes to be "my way or no way," look at how quickly they became "socialists" handing out free money during the pandemic.  Trump was like, I'll personally sign each check.  That's what gets me, the empty words and posturing, the obstructionism coming from fear that the other side might fix a few things.

They're forever handing out free money, then crying foul about debt.  They have absolutely no fear that "The Other Side" will fix things, because they won't let them fix things (even if they had good ideas, which they often do not).  It would ruin the whole grift.

(December 14, 2022 at 11:47 pm)Jehanne Wrote:

(December 14, 2022 at 10:42 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Interested to read about this, got a link? My scenario was entirely hypothetical.

One such incident happened in Tennessee:

No pay, no spray: Firefighters let home burn

I recall reading a change.org petition for a similar incident in Oklahoma, but, I may have confused it with the Tennessee episode.

Link's not working.

(December 15, 2022 at 10:20 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(December 14, 2022 at 11:47 pm)Jehanne Wrote: One such incident happened in Tennessee:

No pay, no spray: Firefighters let home burn

I recall reading a change.org petition for a similar incident in Oklahoma, but, I may have confused it with the Tennessee episode.

Link's not working.

Sorry. Try this:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/wbna39516346

(December 15, 2022 at 9:59 am)TaraJo Wrote:

(December 15, 2022 at 9:47 am)Ranjr Wrote:  look at how quickly they became "socialists" handing out free money during the pandemic.  Trump was like, I'll personally sign each check.  

I think that was more about Trump and less about the republican party.  Trump is an extreme narcissist and he'll do whatever he thinks will get him praised and if he thinks handing out pandemic stimulus checks will get people to praise him, he'll do it and damn the political consequences.  If the president had been someone like Ted Cruz or Lindsey Graham or Jeb Bush, I don't think that would have happened.

That being said, Trumps biggest impact on politics and America is how he transformed the republican party.  They became less the party of Regan and more the party of Trump.  That's what gave us lunatics like MTG and Boebart and Gaetz and Desantis.  It's turned their media into crackpot conspiracies (even worse than it was before).  It's got their base foaming at the mouth, constantly striking out in fear at some unseeable, vaguely defined, boogeyman enemy that's coming to get them.

An anti-flag burning amendment would fix all that.*

*sarcasm

Boru