(January 19, 2023 at 10:30 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote:

(January 19, 2023 at 3:35 am)Dmitry1983 Wrote: Solution would cost $60 trillion according to climate alarmists. I just want 3rd world countries to provide their fair share of funding

(January 19, 2023 at 8:09 am)Dmitry1983 Wrote: Everyone should pay in proportion to damage they cause.

What happened to fair shares, proportionate to damage?  The us is responsible for either the majority of carbon emissions in a historic model, or 14% in a current use scheme.

And even if it didn't it should pay within its means. This idea of pay by damage is silly and will not solve the issue.

There's a strong correlation between co2 and gdp. Which is to say that in a current use scheme those developing areas with larger contributions to the fund based on co2 would also tend to have a gdp to match, and, at least ostensibly, an economic motivation to participate in any massively funded global program. It could easily be the case that the contributors get a bigger infrastructure or funding return on their climate mitigation dollar than they pay in.

It may be useful to point out that it's not that The Solution™ would cost 60t according to economists - it's the problem itself that is costing us as much, at present. That number is, itself, based on a very specific subset of all emissions. Arctic ice drilling. The number of developing countries drilling the arctic ice is...well, let's call it slim. This is very much the global norths lane. Which will not, in mere reality, fare well under any climate change scenarios. That misunderstanding is based on wishful projections of marginal improvement in agricultural productivity - dwarfed by the yawning chasm of global economic destruction. Simply put - one day in my lifetime the place I'm at will strongly remind me of florida. I'll have a longer growing season, and I'll be able to plant more tender crops (we're just about there already, to be honest). That'll be convenient for when I have to grow all of my own food in the dystopian shithole created by our stubborn insistence on fucking this all up. It'll all be worth it - the flash floods, the 60deg temperature swings, the 60mph winds....provided that some guy in the south pacific had to pay an extra half cent for every hundred dollars to cover for their contribution to that scenario.

(January 19, 2023 at 8:19 am)Dmitry1983 Wrote:

(January 19, 2023 at 8:13 am)Helios Wrote: ultimately no one will benefit

I live few hundred kilometers north of Moscow and we have freezing temperatures for 5 months a year. I really don't mind warmer climate.

But over where you are the ground will thaw and bodies buried all around in the gulags will stink.



And if you think there is a bright future for northern Russia on a warming earth, I bid you best of luck growing food on boggy land that had largely been scoured clean of mature drainage and developed soil by quaternary continental glaciers that burned it a mile deep under ice until 10,000 years ago.     Happy starving.

That's a deeply unfortunate take, at any rate. While I think we can all summon up the desire.... in january..... for warmer weather, we fail to acknowledge the profound global changes which must certainly be in place to afford us such repreive..and our dependence on those other places in those moments of longing. In a do-nothing climate future, it's certainly warmer for many of us global northeners in january. I'm used to seeding tomatoes right now and in a few short years that should be the conventional model in my region. It's also poorer, less certain, and more desperate.

In that context, I can understand why some people fantasize about being the last men standing - but in mere reality, those people are human dross. Even...and especially... among the last men standing, they have no place. Useless eaters - and it's at this point I invoke the ancient boogeyman. Yes, I will absolutely kill you and take all of your things to buy just one more day for me and my own. I...am only middle of the scale or lower on the order of horrors you will have to face for the privilege of warmer winters. This is hardly an acceptable view of future outcomes - and it obviously has nothing to do with fair shares of damage or feasible climate tariffs.

(January 19, 2023 at 10:30 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote:

(January 19, 2023 at 3:35 am)Dmitry1983 Wrote: Solution would cost $60 trillion according to climate alarmists. I just want 3rd world countries to provide their fair share of funding

(January 19, 2023 at 8:09 am)Dmitry1983 Wrote: Everyone should pay in proportion to damage they cause.

What happened to fair shares, proportionate to damage?  The us is responsible for either the majority of carbon emissions in a historic model, or 14% in a current use scheme.

First, developing countries should pay their fair share.

You keep throwing out these 'shoulds'. Where are you deriving these from?

Quote:First, developing countries should pay their fair share

They should only pay within their means. That is their fair share. No nation should be ruined that is not fair nor is it reasonable.

(January 19, 2023 at 9:34 pm)Angrboda Wrote: You keep throwing out these 'shoulds'.  Where are you deriving these from?

From his nonsensical idea of basing it damage done as if that should determine anything

(January 19, 2023 at 9:34 pm)Angrboda Wrote: You keep throwing out these 'shoulds'.  Where are you deriving these from?

no doubt his contemptible inner nature, marinated in a stew of ignorance and stupidity, that motivates him to identify with the privileged, powerful and abusive and spit upon the down trodden who are trying pull themselves up.

(January 19, 2023 at 10:01 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote:

(January 19, 2023 at 9:34 pm)Angrboda Wrote: You keep throwing out these 'shoulds'.  Where are you deriving these from?

no doubt his contemptible inner nature, marinated in a stew of ignorance and stupidity, that motivates him to identify with the privileged, powerful and abusive and spit upon the down trodden who are trying pull themselves up.

Iirc the guy identified as russian a few pages ago. Russia is responsible for 5% of current Co2 emissions worldwide. Russia is considered to be an emerging country.
Is he willing to ask his overlord to pay Russias fair share for 5% of pollution? 

Oh and how much Co2 does a T-72 emit on average, during a maneuver for example, or, lets not hope that will ever happen, in combat?