(March 24, 2023 at 9:05 pm)Helios Wrote: Your inability to understand something doesn't make it incoherent 

Well, then please do explain it to me.  Use small words so I can understand.  Was Elliot Page a lesbian in 2014?  Is Elliot Page a lesbian today? Go for it :-)

(March 24, 2023 at 9:05 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote:

(March 24, 2023 at 7:45 pm)Tomato Wrote: It's not a complicated concept. It only becomes more convoluted by a particular inclination toward prejudice.

Try attacking the argument rather than the arguer, you'll get further in life.

Online, I prefer to refer to a dickhead as a dickhead. After, all, you're not here to actually learn anything. You just want to twist an argument irrationally toward your erroneous perception.

Quote:Well, then please do explain it to me.  Use small words so I can understand.  Was Elliot Page a lesbian in 2014?  Is Elliot Page a lesbian today? Go for it :-)

Why is it my job to explain this?

Because it's pretty freaking obvious :-)

Or so you would think.....I guess some of us are kinda slow....

(March 24, 2023 at 9:08 pm)Tomato Wrote:

(March 24, 2023 at 9:05 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: Try attacking the argument rather than the arguer, you'll get further in life.  

Online, I prefer to refer to a dickhead as a dickhead. After, all, you're not here to actually learn anything. You just want to twist an argument irrationally toward your erroneous perception.

This pretty accurately describes my observation here.

(March 24, 2023 at 9:03 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote:

(March 24, 2023 at 6:29 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Basically, Elliot Page's sexuality confuses you.

Never in the history of the ever ever has a young person dated according to what's expected only to find out that's not their preference.  Amirite?

It's not a matter of confusion it's a matter of logical coherency.  Are you suggesting that someone can come out as gay, the world celebrates her for being brave, courageous, and for finding her "true self" and then it turns out the person not only never was a lesbian but never was even a woman? How could we ever know who is really gay if they can simply say they were confused the whole-time years later?

Why are you so concerned about someone else's sexuality or how they identify?

How does it affect you?

Let me make it simple - why the fuck do you care?

(March 24, 2023 at 9:13 pm)arewethereyet Wrote:

(March 24, 2023 at 9:03 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: It's not a matter of confusion it's a matter of logical coherency.  Are you suggesting that someone can come out as gay, the world celebrates her for being brave, courageous, and for finding her "true self" and then it turns out the person not only never was a lesbian but never was even a woman? How could we ever know who is really gay if they can simply say they were confused the whole-time years later?

Why are you so concerned about someone else's sexuality or how they identify?

How does it affect you?

Let me make it simple - why the fuck do you care?

Something.. Something ....Rationality .....Or so they say 

(March 24, 2023 at 7:41 pm)emjay Wrote: As someone technically bi, I understand a lot of what you're saying. Though I identify primarily as gay (now, and for most of my life), rather than bi (or straight), there have been other times - though not many, granted - where I've identified more as straight and been more interested in women... so I have degrees of freedom here that my truly gay friends, who can't even conceive of being with a woman, don't. Ultimately I doubt there'll be a full 180 in my life like your examples, because overall I'm much more emotionally attracted to men than women, and that's more important to me than just physical attraction (which is the part that is the most 'interchangeable' for me), but it is nonetheless conceivable, in a different time, place, and mentality. 

Thank you for taking the time to understand what I was saying. I wasn't clear to everybody, apparently.

You make an important point, I think. The emotional element of whom one lives with, and how one feels about settling in with a partner is crucial. And it's not necessarily or primarily about having sex. 

John Updike said he'd rather be seated between any two women at a dinner party than any two men, and I know how he feels. There's an emotional comfort level that isn't dependent on going to bed. 

Quote:Also, in the spirit of what I think you were saying, I don't think we/I really need a label; when I was young it was all about coming out and fitting in, and I was very 'in your face' and political about it, but nowadays I don't feel the need to be so vocal about it, only bringing it up if it's relevant to a topic at hand... ie it's not such a defining point of my identity any more... and as such I guess that means I get to 'embrace the bi' a lot more now, ie just embrace whatever is, without needing to give it a name.

I certainly understand the value of people demanding the recognition they deserve. No one should have to hide, and I respect the people who come out and cause others to face facts. The political movements were [are] necessary.

Like any other form of labelling, though, it may oversimplify, and that's what I wanted to avoid. You shouldn't have to feel pressure to conform to a category.

I remember discussing religion with a very smart atheist man who knew a lot about theology. He said that though he could imagine becoming a Christian, he knew the hardest part of changing would be the reaction from his colleagues in academia, his family, etc. They would perceive his conversion as a betrayal of the team, and his social circle, which was important to him, would treat him differently. It's that sense of team sports that I guess I want to avoid. People should be free to follow their hearts. 

You seem to have a good degree of self-awareness, and I'm happy to see you're comfortable with who you are.

You know, maybe instead of focusing on the few cases where one part of the LGBTQ spectrum ends up identifying as a different part of the spectrum (like someone who previously considered themself a lesbian transforming themself into a trans man who seems to be functionally straight), there’s better possible groups that we could wonder about changing.

Maybe something like pedophilia, which, unlike the vast majority of LGBT people, is inherently dangerous if acted upon.

(March 24, 2023 at 9:08 pm)Tomato Wrote:

(March 24, 2023 at 9:05 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: Try attacking the argument rather than the arguer, you'll get further in life.  

Online, I prefer to refer to a dickhead as a dickhead. After, all, you're not here to actually learn anything. You just want to twist an argument irrationally toward your erroneous perception.

My argument has been quite clear.  Which part do you believe is being twisted and how?

(March 24, 2023 at 9:09 pm)Helios Wrote:

Quote:Well, then please do explain it to me.  Use small words so I can understand.  Was Elliot Page a lesbian in 2014?  Is Elliot Page a lesbian today? Go for it :-)

Why is it my job to explain this?

Because it's pretty freaking obvious :-)

Or so you would think.....I guess some of us are kinda slow....

You cannot answer those two questions can you?