(June 8, 2023 at 4:29 pm)R-Farmer Wrote:

(May 14, 2023 at 6:51 pm)Ten Wrote: If everything that happens, both "good" and "bad", has a purpose and ultimately good intention behind it(cancer babies die because god has a purpose for it; a young woman is raped because god wanted to teach both her and her rapist a moving, faithful lesson) then it would stand to reason that evil and sin don't actually exist. Not by the definition of something that goes against the will of god. Because he wills everything to happen and he has allowed things to happen as they do because they're specifically a part of his plan. They could have happened a different way but he had them happen this specific way, including the choices of individual humans, because that was his intent.

Sin boils down to anything not in the expressed will of God. Evil is the love of sin. In essence Sin is the ability to be independent of God's expressed will/God's law.

Jesus verifies this in Luke 11 that 'we' here in this world are Not apart of God's immediate kingdom and therefore His will is not done on earth the same way it is followed in Heaven. meaning we on earth can in fact be outside of God's will. The proof of this comes in the way of Evil or rather the ability to love and embrace our sin.

But since God creates evil (present tense), then people committing evil are enacting, not denying, God’s will.

Boru

(June 8, 2023 at 5:54 pm)HappySkeptic Wrote: So, there is this God out there, and He has this "will" for how things should work.  But, they don't work that way.  At all.
How incompetent is this god, anyway?  And why is this "will" expressed confusingly in books written by ignorant ancient people, instead of by some more direct means?  What does God have against mixing fabrics, and why does God's will involve a whole lot of killin in the OT, and eternal torture in the NT?

not sure how the quote tags work so I will address your points 1. 2. 3...

1. yes

2. Jesus tells us in Luke 11 in the Lord's Prayer to pray for God's kingdom to come, and For His will to be done here on earth as it is done in heaven. This would indicate This world here and now is not apart of God's immediate Kingdom, and His will on Earth is not being done like it is in heaven.

3 what do you mean? God is 'incompetent' because they do not god according to his expressed will? Expressed will can also be identified as his law. Which is different than god's plan. The plan from the beginning (before Adam and Eve.) was to provide us a place outside of His immediate kingdom So we could in fact choose Whether to serve Him and His righteousness, or sin and satan. This is made evident by the fact He put the Tree of knowledge In the garden. If God did not want us to have the ability to sin/Be outside of His expressed will, He would not have provided the tools for us to be outside of His expressed will.

4 If you think about it, if ancient people are in fact less developed then shouldn't His Expressed will be simpler to understand? Why was it written to them? So it could spread and grow over the generations.

5. The OT laws can be divided into Works of the Law. Meaning things one must do to keep the body 'clean' or holy. (because if they/the jews were to occupy the 'Holy Land' with God then must themselves be clean and holy/set apart from common or secular things. These works of the law were the literal operations that must be done in order for one to physically occupied a place set aside by God.

Why God forbade the mixing of fabrics? I personally don't know but I did look it up this is what I found: The rule against wearing different types of fabric was not a moral law. There is nothing inherently wrong with weaving linen and wool together. In fact, the ephod of the high priest was made of linen and dyed thread ([color=var(--color-link-article)]Exodus 28:6–8[/color]; [color=var(--color-link-article)]39:4–5[/color]). The dyed thread would have been made of wool. This fact is probably the key to understanding the prohibition. The ephod of the high priest was the onlygarment that could be woven of linen and wool. No one else was allowed to have such a garment. Apparently, this rule was to place some distance between the high priest and the people, with the ultimate purpose of reminding Israel of how holy God truly is. A similar prohibition in the Law regarded anointing oil. God gave a special recipe for the anointing oil, and it was strictly forbidden to duplicate the recipe for common use. No Israelite was allowed to make this oil for his own purposes ([color=var(--color-link-article)][/color]).
https://www.gotquestions.org/different-t...abric.html

Whether this is the case or not IDK. Kinda makes sense in keeping with separating holy things from common use. That would be like having a standing rule in grandma's house to not use the fine china except on thanksgiving and or Christmas.

6. why does God kill in the OT?  Think of the Holy Land as a part of God's kingdom on earth (remember I pointed out what Jesus said in Luke 11. This world is outside of God's kingdom and his will is not done on earth as it is in heaven)
So the Holy land was the exception. kinda like God's embassy on Earth. Where it is said that God actually took up residence in apart of the temple called the Holiest of Holies. After Jesus 'gave up the Ghost' on the cross the massive curtain separating the Holiest of Holies from the rest of the world was ripped in half, signifying God's departure from the temple. Which de-sanctified the holy land allowing for sin to go unpunished in this life. 

Because the wage of sin is death, and in the time before Christ animal sacrifice only covered minor sin of the Jews only, the death penalty was required for those who broke the law on or against God's holy Land/embassy.

After Christ Grace was extended to this world. It gave us the ability to be outside of the expressed will of God to the point where our sin is loved by the people becoming 'evil.' pushing judgement off till after this life is over. IE damnation in Hell.

(June 8, 2023 at 6:02 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote:

(June 8, 2023 at 4:29 pm)R-Farmer Wrote: Sin boils down to anything not in the expressed will of God. Evil is the love of sin. In essence Sin is the ability to be independent of God's expressed will/God's law.

Jesus verifies this in Luke 11 that 'we' here in this world are Not apart of God's immediate kingdom and therefore His will is not done on earth the same way it is followed in Heaven. meaning we on earth can in fact be outside of God's will. The proof of this comes in the way of Evil or rather the ability to love and embrace our sin.

And yet love of god is so often love of evil.  Welcome.  Can you explain that?

I don't know what you are asking here.

(June 8, 2023 at 6:15 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(June 8, 2023 at 4:29 pm)R-Farmer Wrote: Sin boils down to anything not in the expressed will of God. Evil is the love of sin. In essence Sin is the ability to be independent of God's expressed will/God's law.

Jesus verifies this in Luke 11 that 'we' here in this world are Not apart of God's immediate kingdom and therefore His will is not done on earth the same way it is followed in Heaven. meaning we on earth can in fact be outside of God's will. The proof of this comes in the way of Evil or rather the ability to love and embrace our sin.

But since God creates evil (present tense), then people committing evil are enacting, not denying, God’s will.

Boru

God allows mankind to Love their sin. Which is what evil is. God does not put this love of sin in our heart. That is something we do on our own.

Did not God create us to have the desires, drives, and senations that we do? Didn't he make us, for instance, not only capable of enjoying food, but capable of enjoying it too much? Our natures are God-given, are they not? We could easily have been fine-tuned to be more easily satiated, for instance.

You're not taking into account, the god of Abraham is an inept, shortsighted moron.

(June 9, 2023 at 9:45 am)R-Farmer Wrote:

(June 8, 2023 at 6:15 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: But since God creates evil (present tense), then people committing evil are enacting, not denying, God’s will.

Boru

God allows mankind to Love their sin. Which is what evil is. God does not put this love of sin in our heart. That is something we do on our own.

Of course God puts the love of sin in our heart. Love of sin is evil and God creates evil. Therefore God creates the love of sin. Isaiah 45:7.

Boru

(June 9, 2023 at 10:03 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Did not God create us to have the desires, drives, and senations that we do? Didn't he make us, for instance, not only capable of enjoying food, but capable of enjoying it too much? Our natures are God-given, are they not? We could easily have been fine-tuned to be more easily satiated, for instance.

He could have, you are right... If the point was to live a certain way. If this were the case their would not need to to provide any way to atone for sin.

Most people get hung up on the do's and don't of sin. while they are a major component of sin, the whole point of sin itself is to provide Choice. If sin is anything outside the expressed will of God then that essentially makes sin the choice to be, or rather stay outside of the will of God. Which makes you a servant to sin and satan.

That's why All sin is the same to God or rather meets the same end. as it all boils down to, do you choose to serve God and righteousness? or Sin and satan?

(June 9, 2023 at 10:07 am)no one Wrote: You're not taking into account, the god of Abraham is an inept, shortsighted moron.

(June 9, 2023 at 12:53 pm)R-Farmer Wrote:

(June 9, 2023 at 10:03 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Did not God create us to have the desires, drives, and senations that we do? Didn't he make us, for instance, not only capable of enjoying food, but capable of enjoying it too much? Our natures are God-given, are they not? We could easily have been fine-tuned to be more easily satiated, for instance.

He could have, you are right... If the point was to live a certain way. If this were the case their would not need to to provide any way to atone for sin.

Most people get hung up on the do's and don't of sin. while they are a major component of sin, the whole point of sin itself is to provide Choice. If sin is anything outside the expressed will of God then that essentially makes sin the choice to be, or rather stay outside of the will of God. Which makes you a servant to sin and satan.

That's why All sin is the same to God or rather meets the same end. as it all boils down to, do you choose to serve God and righteousness? or Sin and satan?

Obviously not a Catholic where not all sins are created equal.  Neither are the punishments the same for all.  And you can pray away your sins.  The Etch-a-Sketch method of having a clean slate.  Say five Hail Marys, an Our Father, and The Act of Contrition.  See ya next week.