(June 10, 2023 at 10:34 am)arewethereyet Wrote: This seems to be following a familiar script.

- God can be known if approached on his terms.

My point - his terms vary according to what sect you belong to.  Being wishy-washy is a piss poor selling point for a god.  Spell out your terms in something other than riddles that people all over the world (and across time) argue about.

Mysterious ways...blah, blah, blah.

and the reason we have different 'sects' is because we are all built differently and have different strengths and weaknesses. so would it not be foolish to demand all people despite their abilities and or even resources be made to follow one strict set of rules?

The apostle Paul in 1 cor 12 compares the members of the church to different parts of the body. one person might be like a hand who can work, greet, build, etc.. and another like an ear. who's only real gift is the ability to hear.. So why would God demand an ear who can only truly serve the body by hearing things be expected to follow the path of a hand?

The church or the churches are meant to be a place where similarly gifted people can come together to work and worship using their gifts together. (many hands make short work of even large tasks.) 

Which is also why we have different doctrine based on our perspectives I the body and how a member can help serve and worship as one whether that been hands feet eyes ears etc..

(June 10, 2023 at 11:34 am)Anomalocaris Wrote:

(June 10, 2023 at 8:12 am)R-Farmer Wrote: God can be know if you approach Him on His terms.

So can any fictional creation be seemingly known as real if you approach it on the terms outlined in the fiction.  But doing so should be the preserve of children playing make belief during games, not adults.

Yes indeedie..

But this works both ways.. From where I stand the fiction is God does not exist. So then that begs the question who is the one who determines what is and is not fiction?

(June 10, 2023 at 5:30 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(June 10, 2023 at 4:29 pm)WinterHold Wrote: In Islam, God is the creator of good and evil, both serve the same purpose of "shaping the exam of life":



Kids die with Cancer to create the test condition:

1-Either we rebel and become evil in response
2-Or we become better people and use this painful experience to do good deeds

Let me give you an example with 2 different people, let's call them X and Y, both had a son who died from cancer.

X became evil after the experience so he joined a drug gang and went on a rampage of evil deeds.
Y became depressed, but decided to open a philanthropy business to help other kids with chronic and fatal illnesses.

You see? God just created such scenario.
Measure on all bad things that happen in this life, they have a purpose.

In conclusion; God is not a human or even a creature like he is portrayed by many wrong faiths. He is a god, he created both evil and good, life and death, fire and water, up and down.

Why does there have to be a test condition at all? God already knows who is going on a drug rampage and who is going to become a philanthropist. What is the point of killing children with cancer when the outcome is already known? 

Applauding the slow, painful death of children as an opportunity for their parents to serve God makes you a monster. You need to know this.

Boru

The test isn't for God to Know.. It's for us to know why God will sentence us or reward us the way he will. God could upon you creation rightfully sentence you to the worst part of hell of a 100 billion years, but this would not be fair for you.. (to sentence you before you lived long enough to even know what is happening)

(June 10, 2023 at 5:39 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: I have a cousin with a grandson who is about 3 years old.  He has already spent 2/3 of his life being ill from cancer and cancer treatments.  Poor little thing also had this during the height of COVID and essentially had to live in a clean room for months on end.  If that's what god's about, I'll pass.

what makes cancer in Kids God's fault?

(June 10, 2023 at 5:42 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote:

(June 10, 2023 at 7:47 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Not in any clear or obvious way.

The contradiction is all powerful entity would have no reason to ever come to behave in any specific way.   Any attempt to explain how such an entity come to behave in any manner attributed to him inescapably and implicitly implies limitations in the entity’s power had compelled the entity to behave in a specific way to circumvent some effects of these limitations.

And if this world is outside of God's immediate kingdom for a reason? a Place where His will is not done here on Earth as it is In Heaven?

(June 12, 2023 at 10:11 am)R-Farmer Wrote:

(June 10, 2023 at 5:39 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: I have a cousin with a grandson who is about 3 years old.  He has already spent 2/3 of his life being ill from cancer and cancer treatments.  Poor little thing also had this during the height of COVID and essentially had to live in a clean room for months on end.  If that's what god's about, I'll pass.

what makes cancer in Kids God's fault?

Did god create cancer and does it decide who it blesses cancer with?

(June 11, 2023 at 8:38 am)emjay Wrote:

(June 11, 2023 at 8:18 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: You're wedded to the idea that gods are like an animal with a brain, and as I said..I don't think you're saying much of consequence or anything strictly true even in that context.

Even without that assumption though, it seems reasonable to say that 'want' and 'need' imply a lack, so an omni-everything God it seems would want or need nothing, and thus have no reason to create anything?

And if God is not an omni everything... But Rather an Alpha and Omega Which means he has the power authority and ability to limit Himself if His will so desires it?

Do you generally agree, then, that the idea that no all powerful entity™ could have any reason to behave some specific way is a credible objection to the existence of a such a thing? I can't imagine why such an objection would require a response if you didn't.

Put another way - what's the point in trying (and possibly failing) to provide such a reason if the entity in question either needs no such reason, or is not personally limited by said reason?

(June 12, 2023 at 9:56 am)R-Farmer Wrote:

(June 10, 2023 at 9:33 am)Ahriman Wrote: The end result of life itself, is death. What's your point?

It does not have to end there.

And I don't have to get a knock on my door by some person who claims she's my long lost cousin, I mean that isn't a very likely scenario, the afterlife isn't very likely either, let's just say the afterlife isn't real because it probably isn't.

It's the bargain basement pitch. "Fuck morality, fuck ability, you're going to die."

There's an interesting bit of narrative discontinuity/ambiguity there between old and new magic books. The reward for fealty (and apparently nothing else) in new magic book...is exactly the thing that heavenly guards were stationed at to prevent man from accessing in old magic book.

ala

Quote:The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.