(June 12, 2023 at 1:31 pm)h4ym4n Wrote:

(June 12, 2023 at 1:17 pm)R-Farmer Wrote: Adam was literally 'hand built' by God. from out of the dust of the earth. I'm saying no one else including Jesus was made that way. Jesus was born just like everyone else. a result of the reproductive process. So again not created by god but born through the process of reproduction making him essentially a copy of what God created.

So to be clear, jesus was invented 2000 years ago? 

When did god invent h ghost? Was it hand built by god or did god have sex with something?

Sure if jesus existed he was born but Jesus is the byproduct of a spirit impregnating a young virgin. Right?

what year were you invented? as the word ;invented' does not apply to what is being described.

(June 12, 2023 at 1:33 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Getting a second medical opinion is just smart living.  Especially in the case of cancer.  Every medical system has their own protocol, states have their own protocols, different doctors do different things based on their knowledge and experience.  If you turned it over to god you wouldn't have bothered with a second opinion since it was out of your hands.

I was diagnosed with breast cancer in 2009.  A new kind, they said, very aggressive, they said.  After a bi-lateral mastectomy the medicinal oncologist at Baylor wanted to start chemo right away...like right now.  A very intense kind of chemo.  I needed to think about it and do some reading.  Then my plastic surgeon's office manager put me in touch with a different doctor in a different medical environment.  No chemo, no radiation, no recurrence.

The first doctor actually told me there was no blood test they could run to check for levels of cancer cells in my system.  Other doctor said that of course there is, it's how they tell if chemo is working or not.  Interesting.  Hospitals about two miles from each other, totally different situation.  As it turns out, I was so anemic after the mastectomy that a round of chemo could well have been my only one.

I left the doctors at Baptist and all their god stuff to go to UT Southwestern and have never regretted that decision for a moment.

I didn't put anything in a god's hands.  I made the decision to put my 'faith' in a doctor who didn't lie to me from the jump.

I'm glad you survived the treatments you had to endure and the whole indignity of it all. I truly feel bad for anyone who has to go through that whole ordeal. As it's not just the physical pain or the whole being ripped out of your life. but the reality of being made to face your own mortality and the reconciliation of all the different things you thought you would have time to still see and do..

So, I mean it when I say I never wanted to imply that there was no other way to survive cancer, or that even being a worshiper of God made you immune to it. I was asked has cancer ever touched anyone in my family. the answer is yes. then shared my own experience. This is how I dealt with it. Not to say anyone else's experience is any less valid.

(June 12, 2023 at 1:58 pm)R-Farmer Wrote:

(June 12, 2023 at 1:24 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: Any idiot can “if” his way into making any ridiculous proposition seem less ridiculous.   Why is a particular idiot such as your self doing so?

Because Jesus in the first part of Luke 11 teaches this world is outside of God's immediate kingdom, and his will is not done on earth as it is in heaven.

That’s so ridiculous it is cute.

(June 12, 2023 at 2:27 pm)R-Farmer Wrote:

(June 12, 2023 at 1:33 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Getting a second medical opinion is just smart living.  Especially in the case of cancer.  Every medical system has their own protocol, states have their own protocols, different doctors do different things based on their knowledge and experience.  If you turned it over to god you wouldn't have bothered with a second opinion since it was out of your hands.

I was diagnosed with breast cancer in 2009.  A new kind, they said, very aggressive, they said.  After a bi-lateral mastectomy the medicinal oncologist at Baylor wanted to start chemo right away...like right now.  A very intense kind of chemo.  I needed to think about it and do some reading.  Then my plastic surgeon's office manager put me in touch with a different doctor in a different medical environment.  No chemo, no radiation, no recurrence.

The first doctor actually told me there was no blood test they could run to check for levels of cancer cells in my system.  Other doctor said that of course there is, it's how they tell if chemo is working or not.  Interesting.  Hospitals about two miles from each other, totally different situation.  As it turns out, I was so anemic after the mastectomy that a round of chemo could well have been my only one.

I left the doctors at Baptist and all their god stuff to go to UT Southwestern and have never regretted that decision for a moment.

I didn't put anything in a god's hands.  I made the decision to put my 'faith' in a doctor who didn't lie to me from the jump.

I'm glad you survived the treatments you had to endure and the whole indignity of it all. I truly feel bad for anyone who has to go through that whole ordeal. As it's not just the physical pain or the whole being ripped out of your life. but the reality of being made to face your own mortality and the reconciliation of all the different things you thought you would have time to still see and do..

So, I mean it when I say I never wanted to imply that there was no other way to survive cancer, or that even being a worshiper of God made you immune to it. I was asked has cancer ever touched anyone in my family. the answer is yes. then shared my own experience. This is how I dealt with it. Not to say anyone else's experience is any less valid.

My main point is that if you had really turned things over to god...there would have been no need for a second medical opinion.

So maybe thank the doctor that you decided to go to instead of saying you wished upon a star and things were taken care of.

When you turn something over to god...that's it, isn't it?  Or did god or one his messengers send you a text with a phone number in it for Dr. I Have Other Ideas?

(June 12, 2023 at 2:18 pm)R-Farmer Wrote:

(June 12, 2023 at 1:31 pm)h4ym4n Wrote: So to be clear, jesus was invented 2000 years ago? 

When did god invent h ghost? Was it hand built by god or did god have sex with something?

Sure if jesus existed he was born but Jesus is the byproduct of a spirit impregnating a young virgin. Right?

what year were you invented? as the word ;invented' does not apply to what is being described.

Okay, are you saying the first time jesus ever made an appearance was after he was born from god having sex with a young virgin?

When was the Holy Ghost born or hand crafted by god?

(June 12, 2023 at 1:34 pm)R-Farmer Wrote:

(June 12, 2023 at 12:53 pm)emjay Wrote: Not that it matters much for anything but what I meant by 'permanent', by analogy would be I could willfully choose, to 'blind' myself by closing my eyes, at any time able to undo that choice by opening my eyes... that would be akin to your peach cobbler example presumably, but to truly, permanently lose that power of sight, would be to remove my ability to see.

I personally do not think so. but an argument can be made for those who do think God could chop off his spiritual arm and could/would not let it grow back.
but IDK. I think this whole thing get played out with Jesus being 'cut off' from the Father, but then the resurrection happens so He back, but at the same time is He all the way back or maybe apart of him is gone now.. IDK. So I kinda have to default to the fact that Jesus was 'cut off' and came back seemingly as he was. So that is my official position.. but personally idk.

Well I don't really have much to say on it, I was just curious. At most I think these notions could make for some interesting thought experiments etc, but beyond that I wasn't really looking to get into a big discussion about it. I'm generally a reader on this site nowadays, much more than a poster.

(June 12, 2023 at 2:35 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote:

(June 12, 2023 at 1:58 pm)R-Farmer Wrote: Because Jesus in the first part of Luke 11 teaches this world is outside of God's immediate kingdom, and his will is not done on earth as it is in heaven.

That’s so ridiculous it is cute.

what disqualifies what Jesus teaches in Luke 11 but validates what you believe about HIS religion? Meaning why is your belief about who and what God is more valid than what Jesus is recorded saying in the Bible?

god is make believe. The babble is a crock of shit!

(June 12, 2023 at 3:12 pm)R-Farmer Wrote:

(June 12, 2023 at 2:35 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: That’s so ridiculous it is cute.

what disqualifies what Jesus teaches in Luke 11 but validates what you believe about HIS religion? Meaning why is your belief about who and what God is more valid than what Jesus is recorded saying in the Bible?

Because Jesus offered no evidence able to withstand anything with even the faintest hint of modern scrutiny.   Not only is Jesus not my or any educated person’s equal in the weight that his alledged saying could possibly deserves, Jesus is literally nothing as far as the weight of his alledged pronouncements.   There is nothing that he alledgedly said that is of evidentiary value, and there is nothing of evidentiary value to show he actually said any of the nothing he putatively said


He is nothing, squared, as support or guide or evidence during serious exploration of reality.

(June 12, 2023 at 2:38 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: My main point is that if you had really turned things over to god...there would have been no need for a second medical opinion.

That doesn't follow..

What does turning a situation over to god have to do with having doctor monitor and or advise on the situation?

Quote:So maybe thank the doctor that you decided to go to instead of saying you wished upon a star and things were taken care of.

where in my story did I say I was not grateful to everyone involved including my first doctor?

Quote:When you turn something over to god...that's it, isn't it?  

Is what it? Durning over something to God means to chose to worship and praise no matter the out come. that I would not pray or try to influence what I thought my immediate needs were. That I would allow God to decide my out come. 

Quote: Or did god or one his messengers send you a text with a phone number in it for Dr. I Have Other Ideas?

I had an insurance issue with the first dr. so I went to a place that would work with the insurance I had. Again kinda allowing God/fate to decide. The point is I was ok whatever the out come. that is what is meant by giving it to god. Not waiting for God to heal me. I though that point was made clear in the last post when I said I did not mean to suggest that cancer can only be healed or even that it was possible or that one is immune to cancer just because they believe in god.