(June 15, 2023 at 4:41 pm)R-Farmer Wrote:

(June 15, 2023 at 11:00 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: That's what I just said.


Another ad hoc detail to insert your ideas into the Biblical story. The Bible is easy to believe when you can just make up additions to the stories so they'll make sense, huh?

are you saying durning the time on the ark there were no eggs at all?
Some chickens can put out 2 to 300 eggs per year. do you think there were no chickens? 

So.. let's say god sent Noah live birds and or reptiles.. and 1 chicken lays a few dozen eggs.. Noah sees this chicken that takes up/Needs say 2 cubic feet to live... but the dozen or so eggs it laid in the last week early takes up 1/2 a cubic foot. which one do you think someone responsible for getting 7 pairs of clean animals and 2 pairs of unclean animals on a limited food and space hand built wooden ship?

Not not say every animal needed to be an egg or baby. just the big ones, the dangerous ones or the ones who eat non stop. Why wouldn't someone do this? If Elon makes it to mars and the goal is to colonize the planet do you think he is sending live chickens who need a whole host od support to keep live? or a few dozen trays of fertile eggs in stasis where He could choose the time and place to incubate the eggs?

If a 4 year old could make this call (as to which passenger chicken or egg is more efficient to transport) Why is it your opinion the man who built a boat big enough to save creation would be too stew-pid to have the spacial reasoning of a current 4 year old?

Bold mine 
Wouldn't the dairy animals need to be pretty big if they are going to produce milk for all the little ones?  

Explain it like a 4 year old.

(June 19, 2023 at 4:17 pm)R-Farmer Wrote:

(June 19, 2023 at 12:29 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: -and I think this has gone so long I'm just going to have to try to give you an assist.  There's a disturbingly easy response to moral objections to theism.  When some supposedly good god is said to have done or commanded horrid shit...that's not god saying that - that's his ghostwriters.  Maybe that's why god always looks like the ideal tribal chieftan of whatever fucking hellhole he comes from?

God's up there watching this....The Real One™.....and is not amused.  Now, I get that you have some latent compulsions to inerrantism bouncing around in your head, but consider this.  Just as above, if you insist for reasons of inerrantism that god DID TOO! order the code red....then you are not refuting the moral objection - you're confirming it's fundamental validity.

which is Why I am separating God from man's objective moral standard.

Making God's will the source of his righteousness and not some arbitrary/objective standard making God answerable to man.

That way God can in fact the Order 'Santiago's Code Red' and retain 100% perfect righteousness. Even if it violates man's objective standards.

like I said, 'not even on the visible spectrum.'

If you remove god from objective standards, you lose the ability to make claims like "gods righteousness".  There's nothing right about it, not really, unless metaethical objectivity is true.  Outside of that, god's righteousness is merely gods godness.  Or gods opinions on stuff.  Or gods rules for being in his club.  None of these things concern me and none are morally binding because they aren't about morality at all. You don't appear to be convinced by metaethical non cognitivism, subjectivity, or relativity yourself......

That you're looking for a way to make not just apparent evil but actual evil "perfect righteousness" is..to put it mildly...disturbing.  Maybe you should look into holding that amoral or immoral position genuinely?  It would be less work, less bullshit, and amount to the same metaethical outcome.

(June 19, 2023 at 4:52 pm)R-Farmer Wrote:

(June 19, 2023 at 1:59 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: It is interesting to wonder whether a vision quest can succeed by those criteria you offered - of novelty and externality.  I don't think it's clear that it would.  If a vision quest is to be anything different from normal empirical observation - it seems like we'd be discussing some sort of inward-searching.  Whether we can acquire something we don't already possess by looking inward is an open question.  OTOH, I'm sure we can come up with novel arrangements of items already possessed.  

A hard requirement for externality probably does endanger most of what we refer to as a vision quest to being unsuccessful.

If you talk to a true savant, many of them sometimes speak (If they can Speak) of an experience where they are like a passenger in a car going for a ride, or a movie theater goer where their primary conscious is set aside and this secondary 'consciousness' completely independent of their waking mind takes over and allows them to paint photo realistic scenes with no formal training, or perform write music on a Mozart level. Not saying this is how vision quests work. I'm just demonstrating a plausible avenue that is in fact a well known and scientifically documented avenue which similar phenoma occur (where information outside of a person's scope age or ability is imparted to them on a scale that could not normally originate from the individual.)

None of which seems to be an issue of externality.  You explicitly mention that these savants have no formal training so..whatever theyre up to would appear to be coming from within.  Thus, they may paint well, or they may play well - but this would not be a successful vision quest by your own stated metrics.

(June 19, 2023 at 5:13 pm)arewethereyet Wrote:

(June 15, 2023 at 4:41 pm)R-Farmer Wrote: are you saying durning the time on the ark there were no eggs at all?
Some chickens can put out 2 to 300 eggs per year. do you think there were no chickens? 

So.. let's say god sent Noah live birds and or reptiles.. and 1 chicken lays a few dozen eggs.. Noah sees this chicken that takes up/Needs say 2 cubic feet to live... but the dozen or so eggs it laid in the last week early takes up 1/2 a cubic foot. which one do you think someone responsible for getting 7 pairs of clean animals and 2 pairs of unclean animals on a limited food and space hand built wooden ship?

Not not say every animal needed to be an egg or baby. just the big ones, the dangerous ones or the ones who eat non stop. Why wouldn't someone do this? If Elon makes it to mars and the goal is to colonize the planet do you think he is sending live chickens who need a whole host od support to keep live? or a few dozen trays of fertile eggs in stasis where He could choose the time and place to incubate the eggs?

If a 4 year old could make this call (as to which passenger chicken or egg is more efficient to transport) Why is it your opinion the man who built a boat big enough to save creation would be too stew-pid to have the spacial reasoning of a current 4 year old?

Bold mine 
Wouldn't the dairy animals need to be pretty big if they are going to produce milk for all the little ones?  

Explain it like a 4 year old.

I don't think he realizes that the small animals would take up even more space and put even more stress on the frame than the large ones would.  He's trying to make elephants small...when he needs to be finding some way to reduce the number of insect species on planet earth. The whole thing is absurd on it's face, ofc...riding out a planet killing atmospheric bomb in a makeshift raft back in the bronze age. Fucking animals? Noah wouldn't be worrying about how to get animals stuffed in. It's his pile of sticks he'd need to mind.

I suspect that this, just like his view on morality, is a view of convenience rather than conviction. There's no need for an explanation that would fit in mere reality, and I bet that this isn't actually what our new friend believes anyway. Magic made the storm. Magic held the boat together. Magic managed the livestock.

(June 19, 2023 at 4:32 pm)R-Farmer Wrote:

(June 19, 2023 at 1:05 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: You are the dumb ass that said all the animals on the ark were babies.  Then went on to say that dairy animals would have to be there to provide nourishment.  I pointed out that baby dairy animals don't give milk.  I deduced that the one mature female on the boat would have to be Mrs. Noah.

Of course, you tried to back pedal on the only baby animals part.

But however you shovel it, it's still bullshit.

Actually I did not say that at all. I said from the beginning that if Noah took baby mammals he wouldn't have to worry about space, them eating each other, or his family or having 100 different types of food. just a bunch of dairy animals to feed them.

Xian mental gymnastics. Love it

If god just told Noah to take dna cheek swabs and store them in liquid nitrogen for future cloning then they wouldn’t have needed as big of a barge.. and only two windows to shovel all that shit for 300+ days.

(June 19, 2023 at 4:35 pm)R-Farmer Wrote:

(June 19, 2023 at 1:17 pm)Ravenshire Wrote: (my bold)

And yet, that's all you offer.

Actully I don't even offer that. My offer begins and ends with sharing with you what god offers. As I can not produce anything He has promised on my own.

Why does god always need a middleman?

(June 19, 2023 at 6:09 pm)h4ym4n Wrote:

(June 19, 2023 at 4:35 pm)R-Farmer Wrote: Actully I don't even offer that. My offer begins and ends with sharing with you what god offers. As I can not produce anything He has promised on my own.

Why does god always need a middleman?

He needs thousands, and thousands, and millions of them because they each explain him a little differently.  It would be an easier story to swallow if it were one story instead.  Apparently god is not a very good communicator.

(June 19, 2023 at 6:09 pm)h4ym4n Wrote:

(June 19, 2023 at 4:35 pm)R-Farmer Wrote: Actully I don't even offer that. My offer begins and ends with sharing with you what god offers. As I can not produce anything He has promised on my own.

Why does god always need a middleman?

more like this R-farmer here, who as a result of his own lamentable intellectual and moral choices is nothing, and who contributes nothing, can only take his own mind off his own nothingness by pretending to be a valuable middle man between those whom he would defraud - us, and a make belief god.

“i humbly assert i speak for god onto you!”

(June 19, 2023 at 5:13 pm)arewethereyet Wrote:

(June 15, 2023 at 4:41 pm)R-Farmer Wrote: are you saying durning the time on the ark there were no eggs at all?
Some chickens can put out 2 to 300 eggs per year. do you think there were no chickens? 

So.. let's say god sent Noah live birds and or reptiles.. and 1 chicken lays a few dozen eggs.. Noah sees this chicken that takes up/Needs say 2 cubic feet to live... but the dozen or so eggs it laid in the last week early takes up 1/2 a cubic foot. which one do you think someone responsible for getting 7 pairs of clean animals and 2 pairs of unclean animals on a limited food and space hand built wooden ship?

Not not say every animal needed to be an egg or baby. just the big ones, the dangerous ones or the ones who eat non stop. Why wouldn't someone do this? If Elon makes it to mars and the goal is to colonize the planet do you think he is sending live chickens who need a whole host od support to keep live? or a few dozen trays of fertile eggs in stasis where He could choose the time and place to incubate the eggs?

If a 4 year old could make this call (as to which passenger chicken or egg is more efficient to transport) Why is it your opinion the man who built a boat big enough to save creation would be too stew-pid to have the spacial reasoning of a current 4 year old?

Bold mine 
Wouldn't the dairy animals need to be pretty big if they are going to produce milk for all the little ones?  

Explain it like a 4 year old.

All those dairy animals, once those eggs hatched, would do fuck all for the birds and reptiles anyway. While most can tolerate some level of dairy in their diet, an exclusive diet of milk would kill the poor things.

Scientifically clueless chuckle-fucks like @R-Farmer should stick to magical explanations for the magical occurrences chronicled in magic books.

(June 19, 2023 at 8:43 pm)Ravenshire Wrote:

(June 19, 2023 at 5:13 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Bold mine 
Wouldn't the dairy animals need to be pretty big if they are going to produce milk for all the little ones?  

Explain it like a 4 year old.

All those dairy animals, once those eggs hatched, would do fuck all for the birds and reptiles anyway. While most can tolerate some level of dairy in their diet, an exclusive diet of milk would kill the poor things.

Scientifically clueless chuckle-fucks like @R-Farmer should stick to magical explanations for the magical occurrences chronicled in magic books.

For someone who goes by 'farmer' he has piss poor knowledge of the care and feeding of animals.  Hope he's just growing weed.

What are things you can farm starting with R?