(June 19, 2023 at 5:31 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: If you remove god from objective standards, you lose the ability to make claims like "gods righteousness". 

yep, if you take the God out of Righteousness you only have morality.

Quote: There's nothing right about it, not really, unless metaethical objectivity is true. 

Indeed. God's righteousness in a moral frame work is in fact not right at all. Just think about that for a moment. why would we consider it right if the system of right and wrong has departed from God's original standard? The whole Purpose of morality is to create a standard of right and wrong that allows for the sins we want to retain. sins that God is opposed to. So if God says ABC is wrong, and we want to retain ABC, then would we not have to vilify God inorder to be justified in departing his Righteousness?

Quote:Outside of that, god's righteousness is merely gods godness.  Or gods opinions on stuff.  Or gods rules for being in his club.

  100% correct. But if you keep going with that line of thought and mix in a little Might Makes right. God's 'opinions' on stuff become the standard on which all are judged.

Quote:That you're looking for a way to make not just apparent evil but actual evil "perfect righteousness" is..to put it mildly...disturbing.  Maybe you should look into holding that amoral or immoral position genuinely?  It would be less work, less bullshit, and amount to the same metaethical outcome.

That's my point..
To what standard should or could anyone hold God to account? First, we do not have the "might" to make what we think is right anything more than a regional/generational preference. That would be like you walking up and knocking on the door of 1600 Pennsylvania AVE to serve a warrant that you your self drew up to arrest the president for violating some arbitrary rule that you personally live by.

Quote:None of which seems to be an issue of externality.  You explicitly mention that these savants have no formal training so..whatever theyre up to would appear to be coming from within.  Thus, they may paint well, or they may play well - but this would not be a successful vision quest by your own stated metrics.

Not with in. The documentary I saw on this says their conscious self is set aside and this 'outside force' which they do not have control of, plays the music, or paints a photo realistic painting, or does whatever magical thing they do. They are often times just passengers or observers in their own bodies.

(June 19, 2023 at 6:09 pm)h4ym4n Wrote:

(June 19, 2023 at 4:35 pm)R-Farmer Wrote: Actully I don't even offer that. My offer begins and ends with sharing with you what god offers. As I can not produce anything He has promised on my own.

Why does god always need a middleman?

What middle man?

(June 19, 2023 at 5:35 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote:

(June 19, 2023 at 5:13 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Bold mine 
Wouldn't the dairy animals need to be pretty big if they are going to produce milk for all the little ones?  

Explain it like a 4 year old.

I don't think he realizes that the small animals would take up even more space and put even more stress on the frame than the large ones would.  He's trying to make elephants small...when he needs to be finding some way to reduce the number of insect species on planet earth.  The whole thing is absurd on it's face, ofc...riding out a planet killing atmospheric bomb in a makeshift raft back in the bronze age.  Fucking animals?  Noah wouldn't be worrying about how to get animals stuffed in.  It's his pile of sticks he'd need to mind.

I suspect that this, just like his view on morality, is a view of convenience rather than conviction.  There's no need for an explanation that would fit in mere reality, and I bet that this isn't actually what our new friend believes anyway.  Magic made the storm.  Magic held the boat together.  Magic managed the livestock.

insects lay eggs too.. they do not have to be incubated to hatch either.

(June 19, 2023 at 8:43 pm)Ravenshire Wrote:

(June 19, 2023 at 5:13 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Bold mine 
Wouldn't the dairy animals need to be pretty big if they are going to produce milk for all the little ones?  

Explain it like a 4 year old.

All those dairy animals, once those eggs hatched, would do fuck all for the birds and reptiles anyway. While most can tolerate some level of dairy in their diet, an exclusive diet of milk would kill the poor things.

Scientifically clueless chuckle-fucks like @R-Farmer should stick to magical explanations for the magical occurrences chronicled in magic books.

(June 20, 2023 at 8:26 am)R-Farmer Wrote:

(June 19, 2023 at 5:13 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Bold mine 
Wouldn't the dairy animals need to be pretty big if they are going to produce milk for all the little ones?  

Explain it like a 4 year old.

Actually no. The reason we call dairy animals 'Dairy animals" is not just because they lactate. but because they do so in abundance. meaning they produce more milk than that the baby needs to survive. For instance there are dairy cows who produce several gallons of milk a day. all of this milk production makes their bone and muscle structures smaller/weaker than what we would consider a meat cow. as their bodies will even scavenge itself inorder to produce milk.

Same thing in goats. We have Nigerian dwarf goats. They are a breed of dairy Goat. the awesome thing about them is they are 1/2 the size of a normal goat. They eat 1/2 the food but produce the same amount of milk as a full size goat and it is richer and sweeter. 

So to keep three animals alive, you only need to feed one from your stock pile of resources. Feed one dairy goat she produces milk the will deed two or more babies. Not only that all you need to now store in resources is one type of hay/food. Rather than having to keep 100s of different types of food or even meat.

Other wise you would have to feed 3 adult animals an adult portion from your limited stock of resources. whether that be hay, meat or what have you

What makes more sense? feeding one type of animal (dairy goats or cows or whatever) from your stored up hay, or each adult animal an adult portion from the many different food stores you would then have to have to support all of them?

So lactating animals to feed baby animals for 300+ days drifting around doesn’t violate the two by two order?

I predict a half gainer with a 360 twirl for this maneuver

(June 20, 2023 at 8:52 am)R-Farmer Wrote:

(June 19, 2023 at 6:09 pm)h4ym4n Wrote: Why does god always need a middleman?

What middle man?

You

Jesus

John

Burning bush

Donkey

Snake

Get it


Never Yahweh itself

God can make the universe but can't make his own book, he needs humans with printing presses to it for him!

Well, I guess there’s just nothing magical about the story, then, eh R.

(June 20, 2023 at 9:43 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Well, I guess there’s just nothing magical about the story, then, eh R.

It's not even an interesting or entertaining story for anyone over the age of 6.

Well, certainly not if it’s just about a guy and a boat. Nothing out of the ordinary going on.