Mary is tuned AF though.

@The Grand Nudger

Quote:You might have it backwards Nish. It's not that the universe is tuned for life, but that life as we know it is tuned for the universe as we know it. The usual example is that of a puddle water, certain that the hole was custom-made to fit.

Mate, this is going to be no fun at all if you just blurt out the answers like that.

Boru

(July 22, 2023 at 11:58 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: @The Grand Nudger

Quote:You might have it backwards Nish. It's not that the universe is tuned for life, but that life as we know it is tuned for the universe as we know it. The usual example is that of a puddle water, certain that the hole was custom-made to fit.

Mate, this is going to be no fun at all if you just blurt out the answers like that.

Boru

Where were we having fun?  I must have missed it.

(July 22, 2023 at 1:02 pm)arewethereyet Wrote:

(July 22, 2023 at 11:58 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: @The Grand Nudger


Mate, this is going to be no fun at all if you just blurt out the answers like that.

Boru

Where were we having fun?  I must have missed it.

That depends upon whether time is continuous or discrete. It's a discrete possibility that Nishant will continue.

(July 22, 2023 at 11:14 am)Nishant Xavier Wrote: I did not say you were depressed, FM. I was pointing to a general trend among the non-religious: "Of the 178 most methodologically rigorous studies, 119 (67%) find inverse relationships between R/S and depression" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3426191/ Man was never meant to live without God. True, your Sunday mornings may be occupied in going to Church etc, but then you receive so many blessings for fulfilling your obligations to Him in that way, from receiving Him in Holy Communion,

And this is how much this guy is interested in the conversation about fine-tuning, which is nill. He just jumps to another topic.

When it comes to happiness and religion, the happiest countris in the world are also the least religious countries in the world, like Denmark, Switzerland, Austria, Iceland, Finland, Sweden, Canada.

While the least-happy nations on earth are highly religious societies with virtually no atheists: Congo, Zimbabwe, Burundi, Afghanistan

The religious are miserable, if that wasn't manifestly clear in their fantasizing about other worlds...and the only people more miserable than them are the people who have to live with the consequences of their absurd societies and politics.

(July 22, 2023 at 11:14 am)Nishant Xavier Wrote: Grandizer, here is more on the book I mentioned, which could help clarify the matter: https://www.eclectica.org/v4n2/skea_rees.html

"The first is a ratio of the strength of the electrical forces that hold atoms together divided by the force of gravity between them. It is very large, about 10^36, and were it a few zeros shorter, only a short-lived miniature universe could exist and there would be no time for biological evolution.

The second number is also a ratio and is the proportion of energy that is released when hydrogen fuses into helium. This number is 0.007, and if it were 0.006 or 0.008 we could not exist."

Even if this were all true (for the sake of argument), this doesn't mean therefore that the most likely explanation is that the universe was intelligently designed. Even if this universe was fine-tuned for life, and even if the fine-tuning for life had to be remarkably precise for life to exist eventually, the fine-tuning could have been due to some naturalistic necessity rather than chance.

So your conclusion is still unwarranted.

But in reality, there isn't an established scientific consensus on this matter, and you're arguing from selective authority.

ETA: Something that just crossed my mind, and because I'm bored. Regarding the two ratios described above (along with the four other constants), it could be that while adjusting only one of these constants could suddenly render the universe not life-permitting, adjusting all constants simultaneously could still lead to a life-permitting universe if there are other sets of values that allow for life.

More important than that is that the design argument cannot show that God was the designer, so even if we were designed, that just leaves a puzzling mystery.

(July 22, 2023 at 2:25 pm)Angrboda Wrote: More important than that is that the design argument cannot show that God was the designer, so even if we were designed, that just leaves a puzzling mystery.

I don't know about you, but if one of the candidates for universe creation was outwitted by a Talking Snake™ (Genesis 3), I wouldn't call that particular god back for a second interview.