(August 11, 2023 at 2:49 pm)FrustratedFool Wrote: Whilst I have some sympathy and understanding of the xtian POV, I have come to believe that religion does more harm than good in the world at present.  I don't think it a 'good' thing to be religious.

I wouldn't advise letting go of the things the Christian POV wholesale. Some of that stuff is legit. Even if the whole package is suspect.

You don't have to deny anything true in order top reject Christianity. Some of Christianity is on point. You should accept those specific parts.

The story of Lazarus, dismiss it it. The healing of blind folks, dismiss it... especially if you think it's all all made up. (And of course it is.)

But the parable of the sowers. If you can take a moral or meaningful message out of that, I say go ahead. It's a parable. It's not trying to make you accept some doctrine. It is using a metaphor to say something about reality. I'm not saying the parable of the sowers is true or says something significant, but if you it does, you'll be the first to know and the fundies will be the last.

What bits of the Christian worldview are on point that aren't accessible by other means or found within other worldviews?

(August 11, 2023 at 2:49 pm)FrustratedFool Wrote: Whilst I have some sympathy and understanding of the xtian POV, I have come to believe that religion does more harm than good in the world at present.  I don't think it a 'good' thing to be religious.

haha maybe

I never knew what to say to those sorts of statements.

I couldn't tell what was the problem.  

People, circumstances, religion ???

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying there, sorry.
Do you want me to rephrase something or be more clear on something?

(August 11, 2023 at 8:00 pm)LinuxGal Wrote:

(August 11, 2023 at 10:55 am)HappySkeptic Wrote: Some Christians think that atheists just have a poor concept of God.  The argument "well, I (Christian) don't believe in the god you don't believe in, either" is meant to say that if we only had the "right" concept of God, we'd believe.

The God I don't believe in is the one in the Bible, the one who drowned all the babies and puppies on the planet.

If Christians tell me they don't believe in that God either that makes two of us.

Do you have an idea of what a "God" should be?? (Im thinking a "Good God" btw)

(Seems you're sure what a God shouldn't be)

(August 14, 2023 at 9:43 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: I'm not sure I follow what you're saying there, sorry.
Do you want me to rephrase something or be more clear on something?

Is ↑ to me??

(August 14, 2023 at 9:54 am)Confused-by-christianity Wrote:

(August 14, 2023 at 9:43 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: I'm not sure I follow what you're saying there, sorry.
Do you want me to rephrase something or be more clear on something?

Is ↑ to me??

Yes, sorry.

(August 14, 2023 at 9:43 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: I'm not sure I follow what you're saying there, sorry.
Do you want me to rephrase something or be more clear on something?

No I think it's pretty clear - what you said. :-)   

You think religion does more harm than good - in the present day.
  
I think:  "Fair enough - maybe it does??!!?".

I don't know myself.  I never got to an answer on that one.  

Thats what I meant to say when I typed "I couldn't tell what was the problem.  People, circumstances, religion"

Ah, ok. No problem

(August 14, 2023 at 4:39 am)vulcanlogician Wrote: The story of Lazarus, dismiss it it. The healing of blind folks, dismiss it... especially if you think it's all all made up. (And of course it is.)

But the parable of the sowers. If you can take a moral or meaningful message out of that, I say go ahead. It's a parable. It's not trying to make you accept some doctrine. It is using a metaphor to say something about reality. I'm not saying the parable of the sowers is true or says something significant, but if you it does, you'll be the first to know and the fundies will be the last.

The parable of the sowers is all about accepting doctrine.  It says as much itself.  It also tells us who the narrator was speaking to.  Jesus™ positively bursts with agrarian metaphors.  You'd think he was a field hand all of a sudden.  Lazarus is interesting because the narrator is clearly speaking to skeptics.  He has Jesus™ let his very good friend die...and stay dead for a few days.  This is crucial, because the other times he raises people from the dead in earlier stories he does it immediately.  Leading, as the narrator puts it into gods mouth explicitly in the text...to some doubts. It's also one of the only places in new magic book where jesus is explicitly called the messiah and the son of god. Seems that wasn't clear enough for "John" or his audience either.

I find all sorts of interesting and meaningful stuff in magic books, but it's never the stuff the believers want me to find, or expect me to find, apparently. The abrahamic god is essentially a test tube example of a bad actor and as a running list of shit you shouldn't do, it works as moral instruction of a sort. It shows us what it means to be a tyrant. How to be a bad friend, how to be a bad father. It flies off the handle at the slightest provocation and seems to feel that nothing other than human blood can satisfy it's urges, even when it wants to save people. Just in those two bits above it manages to showcase it's moral bankruptcy.