(August 18, 2023 at 8:56 pm)Barry Wrote: I’d love to hear your evidence for the universe popping randomly into existence. It’s not just me who has to prove anything.

No one has to provide you any such evidence. You are obviously new to this sort of debate. 

Since you are totally ignorant, there is no science that goes there, yet. Do get an education. 
Just as countless time in the past, making up shit to answer your ignorant childish question will probably be incorrect and your ignorant question will result 
in a premature guess. We may eventually know the answer, but NOTHING justifies your jump to "a gawd done did it", jusrt because you have no other explanation, 
(which is a classic fallacy : argument from ignorance. Don't they make you take Logic ?)

Is your god so fucking stupid, he doesn't know when someone says they believe, when they really don't ?

The universe has likely always existed in one form or another.

What are the origins, if any? We don't know...

...yet!

And that "yet", to me, is the important part.

Our knowledge of the universe expands almost daily, and none of it points to deities.

And while it's a cliche, it is also true: if everything had to have a creator, so did your deity, and all the others.

(August 18, 2023 at 5:15 pm)Barry Wrote: Hi,
I’ve just joined this forum. 
I see a lot of discussion about religion and Jesus and being saved.  I think that in a forum for atheists the most important question is “Does God exist?”. Jesus Christ is irrelevant if he isn’t the Son of God. And all other religious faiths are meaningless if our world occurred by accident with no creator God. 
So how did the world begin? 
My answer is that science proves nothing can be created from nothing in our material world, so the only explanation is that something external created the world. And that is what we call God.

My belief is that there was never absolutely nothing.  The Big Bang Theory postulates an expansion of time-space from an infinitesimal point of high density, and that's definitely a something; from the POV of the current universe, it's more like an everything.

If you claim that a god started it all, at some point you will have to answer the question "Where did this alleged creator-god come from?"  You can't just assert "It's eternal; it was always there." Nope, not good enough.  It's absurd to claim that a powerful, immortal sentient being was just sitting there, minding Its own business for quadrillions of years and then decided one day to cobble together a universe for shits and giggles.  Much more reasonable to see matter/energy as something that was always there in some form or another.

Quote:The problem for humankind is that they don’t want to feel responsible to God, despite knowing in their hearts God exists.

A word of caution, Barry:  Don't tell other people what they think or believe.  You have no way of reading other peoples' minds.  Don't bear false witness against people you've never even met.

So much for jesus the great teacher of wisdom. If he aint the son of god he aint shit, so sayeth a christian.

(August 18, 2023 at 9:10 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote:

(August 18, 2023 at 8:56 pm)Barry Wrote: I’d love to hear your evidence for the universe popping randomly into existence. It’s not just me who has to prove anything.

No one has to provide you any such evidence. You are obviously new to this sort of debate. 

Since you are totally ignorant, there is no science that goes there, yet. Do get an education. 
Just as countless time in the past, making up shit to answer your ignorant childish question will probably be incorrect and your ignorant question will result 
in a premature guess. We may eventually know the answer, but NOTHING justifies your jump to "a gawd done did it", jusrt because you have no other explanation, 
(which is a classic fallacy : argument from ignorance. Don't they make you take Logic ?)

Is your god so fucking stupid, he doesn't know when someone says they believe, when they really don't ?

Hi BBall
I’m back from my grandsons Bball. They both lost. Perhaps I should have prayed to the FSM.
I’m working out what kind of debate exists on this forum. I have to provide all the evidence for the existence of God, and you can refuse to explain how the universe began. I know the answer, you say you may eventually. Why shouldn’t I share my belief. My belief may be wrong, but you can’t refuse to accept I have it. I accept your unbelief. 
Cheers Barry

(August 18, 2023 at 11:05 pm)Astreja Wrote:

(August 18, 2023 at 5:15 pm)Barry Wrote: Hi,
I’ve just joined this forum. 
I see a lot of discussion about religion and Jesus and being saved.  I think that in a forum for atheists the most important question is “Does God exist?”. Jesus Christ is irrelevant if he isn’t the Son of God. And all other religious faiths are meaningless if our world occurred by accident with no creator God. 
So how did the world begin? 
My answer is that science proves nothing can be created from nothing in our material world, so the only explanation is that something external created the world. And that is what we call God.

My belief is that there was never absolutely nothing.  The Big Bang Theory postulates an expansion of time-space from an infinitesimal point of high density, and that's definitely a something; from the POV of the current universe, it's more like an everything.

If you claim that a god started it all, at some point you will have to answer the question "Where did this alleged creator-god come from?"  You can't just assert "It's eternal; it was always there."  Nope, not good enough.  It's absurd to claim that a powerful, immortal sentient being was just sitting there, minding Its own business for quadrillions of years and then decided one day to cobble together a universe for shits and giggles.  Much more reasonable to see matter/energy as something that was always there in some form or another.

Quote:The problem for humankind is that they don’t want to feel responsible to God, despite knowing in their hearts God exists.

A word of caution, Barry:  Don't tell other people what they think or believe.  You have no way of reading other peoples' minds.  Don't bear false witness against people you've never even met.

Hi Astreja, 
I don’t tell anyone what they think or believe. 
If matter or energy existed for ever, from infinity, how could we arrive at the present. The answer for me is a God who exists outside of time.
Yes, where did God come from is a good question. So is where did the Universe come from. Or where did the Big Bang come from etc etc. Neither of us can prove the answer, but the burden of proof is not just on me. 
Cheers Barry

(August 19, 2023 at 12:40 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: So much for jesus the great teacher of wisdom.  If he aint the son of god he aint shit, so sayeth a christian.

Hi GN, 
Jesus said he was God. So, as CS Lewis and others said, if he wasn’t God he was a lier or a madman. 
I believe he is God.
Cheers Barry

(August 18, 2023 at 10:40 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: The universe has likely always existed in one form or another.

What are the origins, if any?  We don't know...

...yet!

And that "yet", to me, is the important part.

Our knowledge of the universe expands almost daily, and none of it points to deities.

And while it's a cliche, it is also true: if everything had to have a creator, so did your deity, and all the others.

Hi TV
Likely is a vague word. Yes you don’t know, “yet”. Nothing we learn about our universe explains its origin, except God.
It’s logical so say there was a first cause. Outside of time. That’s what we call God. 
Cheers Barry

(August 18, 2023 at 8:45 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote:

(August 18, 2023 at 8:38 pm)Barry Wrote: Hi Bucky Ball, I was going to watch an 8am Basketball (not Bucky ball) match, then 2 netball matches from 9am to 10:30am, then 12:10pm basketball and 1:50 pm basketball match, 5 different grandkids at 4 different venues. But the first grandkid is sick, I passed on the netball. Yes you got me, my pants are on fire. That’s the only argument you have one. 

It’s 10:30 am, I’m leaving at 11:30 am, dropping off some prescriptions for two grandkids at pharmacy. 

I have an Arts Degree majoring in Latin, Greek, with pure maths and Greek thrown in. I study religion every day. 

 But we don’t need theology and a whole lot of study to believe in God. As you quoted, Faith is a gift from God. Which we are free to accept or not. 

I’d love to hear your evidence for the universe popping randomly into existence. It’s not just me who has to prove anything. 

If you don’t know and I say I do, that’s fine, I respect that. And I could be wrong, but that would be depressing. 

So I’ll have my shower now, and venture into the world created by God. 

I’ll let you know the scores. 

God Bless 
Barry

We ARE NOT "free" to accept anything if we truly don't believe, which is why YOUR cult's Catechism says we are saved anyway, if we honestly don't believe. 
You should study Catholicism.
Jesus said "judge not, lest you are judged". YOU cannot judge anyone. 
I have made no claim. I don't have to prove anything. I don't have to accept Any OF YOUR ASSUMPTIONS OR PREMISES.
You know how many infants died of cancer this morning ?
YOU have to prove there is a god, and why all those babies died. 

Shove your scores up your ass.

BBall, just saw. Your edifying exhortation. Thanks for that. I’m not sure why you are so antagonistic. This is a forum, not a cage fight. I know what the Catechism says. Why do you say I don’t? I’m not judging anyone, only God does, and you it seems. 
The burden of proof is not on me. Yes, suffering is a challenging issue. I believe in an afterlife with God. That offers hope. 
Cheers Barry