(August 19, 2023 at 3:47 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote: If God made everything that exists, where was he before he made it, and who made this god?
 Science doesn't know how the universe was created but is trying to find out (mostly worked out to a small fraction of a second after the big bang, working on the details)
Replacing "I don't know" with "god did it" is a cop out.

Hi Zebo 
God exists outside time. Science doesn’t. I agree “science doesn’t know”. “Trying to find out” is a “cop out”. 
Cheers Barry

(August 19, 2023 at 3:54 am)Barry Wrote:

(August 19, 2023 at 3:47 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote: If God made everything that exists, where was he before he made it, and who made this god?
 Science doesn't know how the universe was created but is trying to find out (mostly worked out to a small fraction of a second after the big bang, working on the details)
Replacing "I don't know" with "god did it" is a cop out.

Hi Zebo 
God exists outside time. Science doesn’t. I agree “science doesn’t know”. “Trying to find out” is a “cop out”. 
Cheers Barry

How is trying to find out a cop out, do you prefer ignorance?
How do you KNOW god exists out of time (and what does that even mean?)

God is a cop out. Even worse, it is not just a cop out, it merely have the superficial appearance of a cop out. Under the hood it is a deeply malevolent purposed falsehood.

Quote:Barry wrote :
The problem for humankind is that they don’t want to feel responsible to God, despite knowing in their hearts God exists.

Then he lied and said :

Quote:I don’t tell anyone what they think or believe.

Apparently you do tell people what they "know". Do all Catholics do their "mind reading" schtick ?
Barry, we're not that stupid. 
BTW, ... Roger Penrose, (Stephen Hawking's friend) wrote a book entitled Cycles of Time. 
https://www.google.com/search?q=penrose+...nt=gws-wiz
It won't mean much to you, as you have no background in science.
He is just a tad smarter then you. 
If you need to know where the universe came from, how about go get an education ?

Genesis says nothing at all about a "universe". The ancient desert knew nothing about a universe.
This is what they thought the earth looked like : https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=55...=777&dpr=1
In fact astronomers didn't even know what other galaxies were until the last century.
https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sci...e-universe

(August 18, 2023 at 5:15 pm)Barry Wrote: Hi,
I’ve just joined this forum. 
I see a lot of discussion about religion and Jesus and being saved.  I think that in a forum for atheists the most important question is “Does God exist?”. Jesus Christ is irrelevant if he isn’t the Son of God. And all other religious faiths are meaningless if our world occurred by accident with no creator God. 
So how did the world begin? 
My answer is that science proves nothing can be created from nothing in our material world, so the only explanation is that something external created the world. And that is what we call God. The problem for humankind is that they don’t want to feel responsible to God, despite knowing in their hearts God exists. 
Cheers Barry

G'Day Barry.

Sorry I'm late.

So parsing things down to what I think would be the leading question of "How did the world begin", y'see it's something like this.

"When a Mommy planetesimal and a Daddy planetesimal grind themselves together in a very special way, you get a Planet."

You're possibly kind of right about the whole 'Nothing' thing. Then again, that's not what Physicists etc actually say.

'Nothing' is just a Human concept, like 'Infinity' and 'Zero'. Since, thanks to Einstein, we know energy can neither be created nor destroyed, potential 'Energy' in whatever form has always existed.

No, that's the name of the concept you put into the spot where you currently seem to have gaps in your knowledge/understanding of things.

I've just had a major radiological scan. The Doctors didn't find anything written on, in, around, next to or otherwise near my heart. Plus, other than the occasional 'Heart burn' and indigestion pretty sure most of my thoughts are generated by the roughly four pounds of toothpaste density of grey matter within my calcium box perched atop my spinal collum.

Cheers.

(August 18, 2023 at 5:15 pm)Barry Wrote: Hi,
I’ve just joined this forum. 
I see a lot of discussion about religion and Jesus and being saved.  I think that in a forum for atheists the most important question is “Does God exist?”. Jesus Christ is irrelevant if he isn’t the Son of God. And all other religious faiths are meaningless if our world occurred by accident with no creator God. 
So how did the world begin? 
My answer is that science proves nothing can be created from nothing in our material world, so the only explanation is that something external created the world. And that is what we call God. The problem for humankind is that they don’t want to feel responsible to God, despite knowing in their hearts God exists. 
Cheers Barry

Look up "Quantum Field Theory". Photons carrying electrical forces pop into existence and disappear all the time, every time you touch something. Since low-energy particles do it all the time, it's not a strectch to imagine that a high-energy particle such as one that existed at the beginning of the universe (right before the Big Bang) can pop into existence under some conditions.

(August 19, 2023 at 4:29 am)Anomalocaris Wrote: God is a cop out.   Even worse, it is not just a cop out, it merely have the superficial appearance of a cop out.  Under the hood it is a deeply malevolent purposed falsehood.

I’m not sure why there is so much hostility to God. “Malevolent” is a very judgmental word. A “purposeful falsehood”, really. God offers hope. Atheism offers a meaning less death, and life really. 
Cheers Barry

(August 19, 2023 at 5:02 am)Bucky Ball Wrote:

Quote:Barry wrote :
The problem for humankind is that they don’t want to feel responsible to God, despite knowing in their hearts God exists.

Then he lied and said :

Quote:I don’t tell anyone what they think or believe.

Apparently you do tell people what they "know". Do all Catholics do their "mind reading" schtick ?
Barry, we're not that stupid. 
BTW, ... Roger Penrose, (Stephen Hawking's friend) wrote a book entitled Cycles of Time. 
https://www.google.com/search?q=penrose+...nt=gws-wiz
It won't mean much to you, as you have no background in science.
He is just a tad smarter then you. 
If you need to know where the universe came from, how about go get an education ?

Genesis says nothing at all about a "universe". The ancient desert knew nothing about a universe.
This is what they thought the earth looked like : https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=55...=777&dpr=1
In fact astronomers didn't even know what other galaxies were until the last century.
https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sci...e-universe

Hi Bball, you seem very angry. I made a general comment about humankind. I didn’t say anything about anyone in particular and their belief. There have been numerous erroneous comments about my beliefs on this forum, including comments about where I can stuff them. Why are some atheists so hostile? People have been believing in God since recorded history. Doesn’t mean we are right, but to get so angry and hostile about it  can’t be good for you. If God doesn’t exist, why bother bringing attention to God? Why have a forum of un/non/dis belief? It doesn’t seem a happy place.
Cheers Barry

(August 18, 2023 at 8:12 pm)Barry Wrote:

(August 18, 2023 at 8:02 pm)Ravenshire Wrote: Holy fuck, but I get tired of hearing this from every smarmy, self-righteous christer nut-job that shoves their nose in here.

How 'bout you offer up some actual, testable, verifiable evidence for your gawd and shove your canned spam right up your ass, sideways if it'll fit.

Hi Raven
Thanks for your learned comments. Theists are invited to this forum. Perhaps you are on the wrong one. 
I’m just saying God created the world. What is your view? Did the universe just happen from nothing? Is that evidence based? 
The burden of proof is not just on me. 
Educate me. Tell me. 
God Bless Barry

Why do you guys fight for nothing can come from nothing except your godthing?

You god and no thing existed at one point, right?


What was gods first invention?

(August 19, 2023 at 5:58 am)FlatAssembler Wrote:

(August 18, 2023 at 5:15 pm)Barry Wrote: Hi,
I’ve just joined this forum. 
I see a lot of discussion about religion and Jesus and being saved.  I think that in a forum for atheists the most important question is “Does God exist?”. Jesus Christ is irrelevant if he isn’t the Son of God. And all other religious faiths are meaningless if our world occurred by accident with no creator God. 
So how did the world begin? 
My answer is that science proves nothing can be created from nothing in our material world, so the only explanation is that something external created the world. And that is what we call God. The problem for humankind is that they don’t want to feel responsible to God, despite knowing in their hearts God exists. 
Cheers Barry

Look up "Quantum Field Theory". Photons carrying electrical forces pop into existence and disappear all the time, every time you touch something. Since low-energy particles do it all the time, it's not a strectch to imagine that a high-energy particle such as one that existed at the beginning of the universe (right before the Big Bang) can pop into existence under some conditions.

Hi Flat,
Yes, you can imagine that, I respect your imagination. 
I happen to believe 100% in God. We disagree. I can cope with that. 
Cheers Barry