(August 20, 2023 at 1:12 am)Gwaithmir Wrote:

(August 19, 2023 at 6:13 pm)Barry Wrote: But there is only one answer to the creation of the universe, and that is God.

Prove it!

Hi Gwaithmir
Good point. I presume you can’t prove God doesn’t exist? So you have a problem there. The burden of proof isn’t just mine. 

But let’s presume it is. 

What would convince you that God exists? 

Cheers Barry

(August 19, 2023 at 8:19 pm)Astreja Wrote:

(August 19, 2023 at 6:13 pm)Barry Wrote: Good morning
St Augustine said that if you think you understand God, you don’t.

And why should we care what Augustine said?

Quote:But there is only one answer to the creation of the universe, and that is God.

Even if that were so (and I very much doubt it), why your god in particular?

Quote:There are many things we don’t understand in life, but accept on faith. Faith is a gift from God. You can accept it, or reject it.

Barry, I have no religious faith at all.  I never have.  My brain simply doesn't "do" religious faith.  Why should I lie to myself and pretend to accept ideas that can charitably be described as "unsupported assertions," but that are vastly more likely to be arrant nonsense or outright lies?

Hi Astreja
God is just God. God doesn’t belong to anyone. We are all God’s people. 
Astreja, I respect your position. You certainly shouldn’t lie to yourself and pretend. 
I know many intelligent prominent Christians who used to be committed atheists. 
It is not a problem for me if atheists never believe in God. It would concern me if anyone just pretends. 
I know very intelligent atheists too. 
I think belief in God gives great meaning to life and hope for our future. Hence I share my belief. 
Cheers Barry

@Barry
What is your explanation for apostates and deconverts?

(August 19, 2023 at 8:24 pm)Nay_Sayer Wrote:

(August 19, 2023 at 7:25 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: For us faithless, kindly spell out the answer. What makes you think it's so terribly binary? What makes you think these are the only two possible answers?

What makes you so afraid to admit that we may not know, that you'd adhere to a synthetic explanation totally absent of proof?

I'd argue you 1) lack the imagination to consider that the answer may still be unknown and 2) the fortitude to say "We just don't know". You insist that this is binary, but you don't say why it may only be so.

I'd argue that you in your turn don't understand science as a process.

You are essentially pushing a god-of-the-gaps argument. How's that working out for your religion? Your pope concedes that natural selection is likely true, and we've had for decades experiments and observations showing that amino acids arise naturally. We've got a hypothesis about how they might congregate into cell-like structures.

We've made good headway into reducing deaths from  cancer, which seems to be beyond your god's purview.

We ship food to starving regions which your god seems to care little about.

In so many ways, the "perfect" god you worship pulls up short of human efforts, so you fall back upon, "But yeah, who made it all?" And when shown that something may arise from nothing, you shake your head. Not out of rational objection, but out of beliefs. And you're afraid to say "We don't know". No! Because you must have The Answer™ You! Your evangelism is ego writ large.

I don't care what you believe. I care what you can demonstrate.

Until then, you're just another blowhard who thinks nonbelievers will (at last!) take you seriously ... like any other blowhard.

Meanwhile, why do you still tithe to an organization which shuffles molesters off to hide them from law enforcement? Do you like supporting that stuff? Or are you simply afraid of what the Joneses will think? And if so, is that not ego as well?

 What a great post, pity it was wasted on a Troll/Sock

Hi, wow that’s a lot to unload on me. 2+2 =4 or not. How can the existence of God not be binary? Saying you don’t know the answer is not an answer. That doesn’t make sense. I say the answer is yes, God exists. It doesn’t make me right. If you say “no”. One of us is right, the other wrong. The people who don’t know don’t have an answer. They are not right or wrong. I respect all 3 positions, buy it is binary.
Cheers Barry

(August 20, 2023 at 6:28 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: @Barry
What is your explanation for apostates and deconverts?

Hi FF
Free will
Cheers Barry

(August 20, 2023 at 6:34 am)Barry Wrote:

(August 19, 2023 at 8:24 pm)Nay_Sayer Wrote:  What a great post, pity it was wasted on a Troll/Sock

Hi, wow that’s a lot to unload on me. 2+2 =4 or not. How can the existence of God not be binary? Saying you don’t know the answer is not an answer. That doesn’t make sense. I say the answer is yes, God exists. It doesn’t make me right. If you say “no”. One of us is right, the other wrong. The people who don’t know don’t have an answer. They are not right or wrong. I respect all 3 positions, buy it is binary.
Cheers Barry

You don't know the basics of logic and reason.

Saying "I don't know" is the only and correct answer when, in fact, your don't know.

Example: what number am i thinking about right now?

(August 20, 2023 at 6:36 am)Barry Wrote:

(August 20, 2023 at 6:28 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: @Barry
What is your explanation for apostates and deconverts?

Hi FF
Free will
Cheers Barry

When does free will start?

Conception?

Birth?

5 years old?

(August 20, 2023 at 6:17 am)Barry Wrote:

(August 20, 2023 at 1:12 am)Gwaithmir Wrote: Prove it!

Hi Gwaithmir
Good point. I presume you can’t prove God doesn’t exist? So you have a problem there. The burden of proof isn’t just mine. 

But let’s presume it is. 

What would convince you that God exists? 

Cheers Barry

Some testable repeatable evidence of a god would help a lot, something which had no other possible explanation

(August 20, 2023 at 6:17 am)Barry Wrote: What would convince you that God exists?

Say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it remove.

Take up serpents with no harm

Drink any deadly thing, and it not hurt thee

Lay hands on the sick, that they recover.

(August 20, 2023 at 6:17 am)Barry Wrote:

(August 20, 2023 at 1:12 am)Gwaithmir Wrote: Prove it!

I presume you can’t prove God doesn’t exist? So you have a problem there.

God does not exist by the law of non-contradiction.  The conjunction of a thing with its own negation cannot exist.  So you are the only one with a problem.

Psalm 147:5 Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite.

Hosea 8:4 They have set up kings, but not by me: they have made princes, and I knew it not...