It applies to everything, not just medicine. Praise God and pass the ammo type of thinking. God helps those who help themselves.

I honestly can't day I've noticed a jot of difference between being religious and not, in terms of benefits. It seems to me that the God's help part is basically zero.

(September 4, 2023 at 4:26 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: I can understand the various reasons that someone may convert, but I'm curious as to why someone would retain their belief after years of being a Christian and having spent time studying the bible and theology, looking at arguments for/against, and so on.

So, for those who have been a believing adult for more than 5 years, and who are feel they're conversant on the various arguments for/against, what is it that keeps you believing?  

Any particular philosophical positions, or specific events that happened, or a particular inner feeling or intuition, etc?

I'm a Christian simply because the threshold for belief ( I don't necessarily believe we can honestly choose to believe something)  has been reached and I accept that it's true. As much as one can actually choose, I try to avoid biases, regularly retrospect, study and discuss my beliefs, which inform my community, which in turn informs my belief. I try and be open and reasonable to accept counter opinions and attempt to tolerate any negativity. 

I see, what I attribute as God's will, in my life regularly. I find value in aligning myself to the positive morality I find in Christiandom. The lessons I learn from my Christian beliefs seem to improve me morally on a personal and societal level. I find value in the community and support being a Christian brings. I believe my world view is very effective in navigating the social and physical world surrounding me. Having a Christian view gives me a sense of peace and enjoyment, meaning my feeling of knowing is defined by my faith. You probably wanted more specifics, but I'm very busy selling a house and not working when I should be

-Dave

Thanks for replying.

Yes, when you get chance, more specifics would be useful.

sure,

There are many reasons, purpose, feels, appreciate, structure, comradery, etc. but it's really only one reason I believe in Christianity and it's because I believe it to be true. I assume you'll want a few things that I consider true and why:

1. I believe Christ lived, died and was resurrected
2. I believe Christ's Holy Spirit lives inside me and helps guide my actions and words on a regular basis.
3. I believe Jesus Christ is my personal savior and redeemer and have a regular relationship with Him.


1. There are plenty of independent surviving texts as sources for Jesus being a living person in the past, that He was Jewish and Baptized, and that He was crucified. I believe there is no logical reason or benefit to the resurrection and tomb story. I have personal experience and what I consider reliable subjective external experiences, along with studies that indicate brain activity doesn't necessarily stop at death and that it is a uniquely human response to death to have NDE, indicating the possibility of consciousness surviving death is not 0% , IMO.

2. There are plenty of times where I was not consciously speaking, sharing unknown knowledge or acting, of my own full volition. Those times (we term it as being led) have all been structured similarly with similar results. Similarly I have reliably witnessed the same in other individuals. There was a definite timeframe where I didn't possess this ability, lining up with the Christian teaching of the Holy Spirit. I distinguish It as a deep inner knowing, separate from conscience and sub-conscious thoughts. It empowers a Christian with gifts like healing prophesy, etc. and I have personally experienced some of those things.

3. Through regularly reading the Bible, discussing Spiritual things, questioning beliefs and introspection I identify the problems present in me, are inherent to all people. This may be a bit of projecting, but I find a need for a hope, a savior. Biblical teachings, my upraising and environment, and a long list of personal experiences, have shown me that throughout my life, I've been steered towards my savior and He has walked me through all of the fires and pleasant places with a singular will and purpose that is not of my own devising. his aligns with the typical Christian understanding of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit and how they interact with us and our world.


I'm certain there are more, but this is about all I have time for today. It's easier to get a reply in thread from me. You can hide the quote if you like, but typically I only search for today's hot topics and replies directly to me. I'm also always open to PMs.

-Dave

Thanks for the response.

It seems that personal religious experience is integral to why you believe.

If you hadn't have had any religious experiences, it seems the sole foundation for your belief would just be the historical resurrection argument, which itself largely presupposes that the arguments for God's existence work and rely on some very arguable subjective interpretations of the very limited sources we have.

Do you think you'd still be a believer if you had never had any religious experiences, whether internal or external?

(September 7, 2023 at 1:44 pm)FrustratedFool Wrote: Thanks for the response.

It seems that personal religious experience is integral to why you believe.

If you hadn't have had any religious experiences, it seems the sole foundation for your belief would just be the historical resurrection argument, which itself largely presupposes that the arguments for God's existence work and rely on some very arguable subjective interpretations of the very limited sources we have.

Do you think you'd still be a believer if you had never had any religious experiences, whether internal or external?

I discovered fairly early that what I had assumed was "religion" was really aesthetics, and the religion part was completely unnecessary. 
3rd Graders don't know the word "aesthetics", so it was a while before I had the words for it. Part of the complexity was also that 3rd Graders know there seems to be "something different", (apparently) and also don't understand "the autism spectrum", (or ever heard about "Mild Asperger's" Syndrome), until my younger brother was born.  And came to see it all eventually as a huge positive asset.

@FruatratedFool - if you are truly interested in knowing why I personally recommitted myself to Christ after decades of atheism, then we could have that conversation by PM. :-)

Why not just post a precis here?

(September 7, 2023 at 4:56 pm)FrustratedFool Wrote: Why not just post a precis here?

He is shy.

---

tackattack Wrote:There are plenty of independent surviving texts as sources for Jesus being a living person in the past, that He was Jewish and Baptized, and that He was crucified.

You've been misled, there are no other sources for Jesus outside of NT.

tackattack Wrote:There are plenty of times where I was not consciously speaking, sharing unknown knowledge or acting, of my own full volition.

This rather sounds like you have neurological problems. Maybe you should see a doctor.

tackattack Wrote:It empowers a Christian with gifts like healing

One wonders why medicine was invented if Christianity gives its devotees the power to heal.

tackattack Wrote:This may be a bit of projecting, but I find a need for a hope, a savior.

Not projecting, but indoctrination. Especially as you continue with: Biblical teachings, my upraising and environment, and a long list of personal experiences, have shown me that throughout my life, I've been steered towards my savior and He has walked me through all of the fires and pleasant places - if you have been born in India you would be saying same things about monkey god Hanuman.

(September 4, 2023 at 5:24 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote: They are not able to accept that they are going to die so they need the crutch of religion to help convince themselves that death isn't the end

I find that to be the most convincing explanation for why people cling to the security blanket of religion.