(November 23, 2023 at 8:26 am)Confused-by-christianity Wrote: Anyway - 2 things
1)  i don't know what you mean when you say theology.  so was asking for your personal meaning.
2)  i haven't seen it in practice.  so i can have a definition but i dont know know what it is

if you like discussing it, i thought you could shed some light

Hi Confused-by-christianity,

I get what you mean. I see it from a layman’s perspective, myself. I do like discussing it. I don’t know if I shed (or will shed) any light, but certainly open to discussing it more!

Here is a quote from a website (I can’t link to it yet)

Quote:Theology is rooted in two Greek words: Theos, meaning God, and logos, meaning reason. Theology is using our reason to study and know more about God and how he has shown himself to the world. There is a discipline known as “natural theology,” whereby we are able to study certain truths about God, including the fact that he has created the world and the fact that God exists. As St. Paul makes clear that God’s existence is revealed through his creation, the truth of natural theology is knowable by reason alone. “Christian theology” is when we use our reason to study and know more about God and how he has shown himself to the world. The object of study is God and his revelation, including how he had revealed himself to Israel and in the definitive revelation in his Son, Jesus Christ, which is especially manifested in Scripture and Tradition. Theology often goes further than this by applying what we know about revelation to new topics and social phenomena. In short, because God touches every facet of our existence, theology deals with the whole of life.

How do you see theology?

SimpleCaveman

(November 22, 2023 at 10:14 am)SimpleCaveman Wrote:

(November 21, 2023 at 3:32 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Welcome aboard caveman.
Picking up on that definition of theology, how much of it do you suppose overlaps with sociology?

Thanks, pocaracas. Interesting question. Thanks for asking.

Not being either a theologian or a sociologist, I’d be hard pressed to say how the practice of the fields overlap. Are you very experienced in either of these fields?

However, I can give you my layman’s perspective with very little research into the question (isn’t that the best way to be discussing these questions? :-) I’m open to correction (with evidence) on anything I say that is incorrect.

I would say that there could be some overlap between the two, but if one stays true to the fields, then probably not much. They might look at the same thing, e.g. how we worship God, but from different perspectives.

It does seem that since the 19th century, people have been trying to reduce theology to a subset of sociology. This fits with the other ways that skeptics have tried to reduce religion, Scripture, etc. to a mere human endeavor, rather than a gift from God.

On the other hand, even if the overlap is, in my thinking, minimal, we can see a clear connection and complementarity between the two such as the different perspectives on some things mentioned earlier.

I think also of the two greatest commandments in the OT, love of God (leading to theology) and love of neighbor (leading to sociology). I’m not saying that the OT was intended as a scientific study. Obviously not. However, the connection between these two commands does show a connection between the fields.

I think the Bible itself is a connection, as well. If we consider that the Nature of God is revealed to us, in large part, in the Bible, and that the Bible is about people, the growth and structure of their society (again, obviously not in a systematic way for either), then there could be some interesting ways to think about the overlap between the two with respect to the Bible as a resource.

Those are my initial thoughts. We can break each field down, if you’d like, and see where possible overlaps, contrasts and complementarities might occur. I suppose that would be in a separate thread. Can I start threads yet? I'll have to see.

Have a great day,

SimpleCaveman

Awesome!
We might be going a bit off from the purpose of an intro thread, but I really like your answer, so I hope the mods/admins will forgive me.

Personally, I think that society somehow birthed religion, so the reduction of Theology to a subset of sociology kinda makes sense. If you think back to a time when mankind was living in small communities/tribes, with lots of oral tradition, it makes sense that some stories would evolve in the shared imaginarium into something akin to lore, or legend, where the distinction between reality and fantasy is very blurry, where unexplainable phenomena would be seen as paranormal, where death of loved ones would be wished to be a simple passing to another realm, the realm of that paranormal.

Of course, those being societies with no writing means that we have no real way to verify this hypothesis, so it must remain in the realm of possibilities.
I see the bible as a late comer, but one that gained a lot of influence.


Perhaps we should continue this in a new thread?

I see religion springing from tall tales told around campfires, frequently fired with dried camel dung. On a clear night with no moon the stage was set for utter bullshit to be at least as credible as any other explanation for that panoply of overwhelming powerful images.

(November 24, 2023 at 11:24 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: I see religion springing from tall tales told around campfires, frequently fired with dried camel dung. On a clear night with no moon the stage was set for utter bullshit to be at least as credible as any other explanation for that panoply of overwhelming powerful images.

I'd think that these tribes would have been in sub-Saharan Africa, so not many camels around...

(November 24, 2023 at 6:04 pm)pocaracas Wrote:

(November 24, 2023 at 11:24 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: I see religion springing from tall tales told around campfires, frequently fired with dried camel dung. On a clear night with no moon the stage was set for utter bullshit to be at least as credible as any other explanation for that panoply of overwhelming powerful images.

I'd think that these tribes would have been in sub-Saharan Africa, so not many camels around...

Why do you think that?

(November 24, 2023 at 11:14 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:

(November 24, 2023 at 6:04 pm)pocaracas Wrote: I'd think that these tribes would have been in sub-Saharan Africa, so not many camels around...

Why do you think that?

Just because that's the area associated with the rise of the Homo branch of the great apes.

(November 25, 2023 at 3:36 am)pocaracas Wrote:

(November 24, 2023 at 11:14 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: Why do you think that?

Just because that's the area associated with the rise of the Homo branch of the great apes.

So we can substitute 'elephant dung' for 'camel dung' and we're golden.

Boru

(November 25, 2023 at 6:32 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(November 25, 2023 at 3:36 am)pocaracas Wrote: Just because that's the area associated with the rise of the Homo branch of the great apes.

So we can substitute 'elephant dung' for 'camel dung' and we're golden.

Boru

Considering the known range of camels, it's not relevant. They became associated with the desert by being used there by humans.

(November 23, 2023 at 12:59 pm)SimpleCaveman Wrote:

(November 22, 2023 at 8:45 pm)Harry Haller Wrote: How would you describe your relationship with the Church?

Hi Harry, good to meet you. Happy Thanksgiving!

“relationship with the Church”? That could mean many things. What do you mean by that? What is your relationship with the Church?

SimpleCaveman

My relationship with the Church went through many phases on my path to atheism.

Now that I am an atheist I don't have much of a relationship with the Church.  I do not believe in their God or their practices.  I do occasionally attend Mass with my family (they are Catholic) but I do not actively participate.  They do get a portion of my treasure though my wife's contribution to the offering.  

Are you here as a true believer wanting to discuss your beliefs and win souls for Christ -or- are you here as someone questioning their faith and wanting to discuss what you believe/question about theism and atheism? 

It doesn't have to be on or the other but I am curious on how you would describe your religious and spiritual life.

(November 24, 2023 at 10:50 am)SimpleCaveman Wrote: Hi Confused-by-christianity,
I get what you mean. I see it from a layman’s perspective, myself. I do like discussing it. I don’t know if I shed (or will shed) any light, but certainly open to discussing it more!
Here is a quote from a website (I can’t link to it yet)

Quote:Theology is rooted in two Greek words: Theos, meaning God, and logos, meaning reason. Theology is using our reason to study and know more about God and how he has shown himself to the world. There is a discipline known as “natural theology,” whereby we are able to study certain truths about God, including the fact that he has created the world and the fact that God exists. As St. Paul makes clear that God’s existence is revealed through his creation, the truth of natural theology is knowable by reason alone. “Christian theology” is when we use our reason to study and know more about God and how he has shown himself to the world. The object of study is God and his revelation, including how he had revealed himself to Israel and in the definitive revelation in his Son, Jesus Christ, which is especially manifested in Scripture and Tradition. Theology often goes further than this by applying what we know about revelation to new topics and social phenomena. In short, because God touches every facet of our existence, theology deals with the whole of life.

How do you see theology?
SimpleCaveman

I guess what i mean when i say theology is: what someone thinks god is like, and how people think we should respond to him. also - the answer to the question "the way everything is?". "Hows it all work - with god and the universe and everything??" (Not 42).

I think different groups have different beliefs about that and they have a different value system.

I assume you mean - who is god, whats he like, whats he want from us, whats he made the universe to be like. Basically if someone wrote down their religion.