(December 9, 2023 at 3:42 pm)SimpleCaveman Wrote: I was going to try and explain it again, but the original post was very clear. For example, There are countries like China, Italy, Spain and India whose population is or soon will be declining. … In India, the number of children peaked more than a decade ago and is now falling.

Right, but that is more likely the result of the inverse relationship between wealth and family size rather than abortion. Even when China was enforcing its One-Child policy with the brutal practice of forcible abortions, its population still grew.

So if anyone wants to argue that abortion reduces net population growth, they'll need better evidence.

(December 9, 2023 at 3:42 pm)SimpleCaveman Wrote: Population decline is happening in many countries. The bolded part of the quote I gave from the UN also makes this clear.

Sure, but not as a result of abortion, imo.

(December 9, 2023 at 3:42 pm)SimpleCaveman Wrote: I am not going to disagree here. I didn’t make that point. You are arguing against someone else.

Here's the exchange:

(December 8, 2023 at 10:33 am)Ahriman Wrote: Uh, maybe I used the wrong word. I'm suggesting a hypothetical scenario in which too many people get abortions (perhaps because it's too accepted) and this jeopardizes human survival.

The opening of your post referring to his:

(December 9, 2023 at 1:15 pm)SimpleCaveman Wrote: I started this thread (and I will try to keep up on it) because Ahriman is right in her post below. And it’s not a hypothetical scenario. It’s already happening.

So while you write that you aren't arguing that point, you are most certainly, by your own admission, agreeing with it. You can't eat your cake and have it, too.

(December 9, 2023 at 1:15 pm)SimpleCaveman Wrote:

(December 9, 2023 at 1:42 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: We are shitting up the only planet we know we an survive on, and that is largely because our population requires enormous food supplies, energy supplies, and so on. But abortion is no way to address that.

Again, we agree.

Only a fool wouldn't.

Now, do you have any evidence to support your agreement with this point? Does any evidence demonstrate that abortion is at the root of these population-growth slowdowns/reversals? Because that is the claim you agreed with above.

Globally, there are about 56 million abortions vs 135 million live births per year. Abortion is unlikely to lead to human extinction.

Boru

(December 9, 2023 at 3:06 pm)SimpleCaveman Wrote:

(December 9, 2023 at 1:29 pm)brewer Wrote: Um.......... not quite right. Fertility is the ability to create viable gametes and conceive. I think you mean birth rate.

I think we’re both right here. Yes, abortion reduces the birth rate. It also reduces the fertility rate, which is the number of live births per woman. That’s how the UN, demographers, and others (probably sociologists, too!) who study this define it.

bold mine: Then they are incorrect. But it's my guess and I find it more likely that you are incorrect. Please provide the link for your UN quote.

Unless you are arguing that abortions directly impacts future fertility status. If you are, that would be incorrect also.

(December 9, 2023 at 5:49 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote:

(December 9, 2023 at 1:15 pm)SimpleCaveman Wrote:  People, countries, agencies have bought into the Malthusian lie that our population will outrun our resources. According to them, my gas-based car should be a terrarium.

So, you can be for abortion if you want. But don’t argue based on population levels.

It's so much simpler than that.  Kids are expensive, and right now..circumstances across the board are dogshit.  Single family housing got hoovered up by hedge funds.  Wages have been stagnant for decades.  The price of everything under the sun never stopped going up.

You want more people to have babies, the answer isn't to make america shittier with some bananapants abortion ban that wont...btw, work.  It's not like we haven't been here before.  Abortion bans don't save babies.  They kill women.

If a woman died while trying to kill an innocent human being that didn't give consent to be put in her body then she deserved it.

(December 10, 2023 at 1:10 am)Dmitry1983 Wrote: If a woman died while trying to kill an innocent human being that didn't give consent to be put in her body then she deserved it.

And people wonder why members of AF are rude. Let me guess, when a theist says something like this he is not rude, but when an atheist responds he is considered rude.

It's not just abortion at issue though, there's contraception, masturbation and unnatural sex too.
It is known that when a sperm is wasted, god gets quite irate.

(December 10, 2023 at 1:10 am)Dmitry1983 Wrote:

(December 9, 2023 at 5:49 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: It's so much simpler than that.  Kids are expensive, and right now..circumstances across the board are dogshit.  Single family housing got hoovered up by hedge funds.  Wages have been stagnant for decades.  The price of everything under the sun never stopped going up.

You want more people to have babies, the answer isn't to make america shittier with some bananapants abortion ban that wont...btw, work.  It's not like we haven't been here before.  Abortion bans don't save babies.  They kill women.

If a woman died while trying to kill an innocent human being that didn't give consent to be put in her body then she deserved it.

We all know you're a fucking douche-bag. Must you hammer the point home at every opportunity?

(December 10, 2023 at 1:10 am)Dmitry1983 Wrote:

(December 9, 2023 at 5:49 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: It's so much simpler than that.  Kids are expensive, and right now..circumstances across the board are dogshit.  Single family housing got hoovered up by hedge funds.  Wages have been stagnant for decades.  The price of everything under the sun never stopped going up.

You want more people to have babies, the answer isn't to make america shittier with some bananapants abortion ban that wont...btw, work.  It's not like we haven't been here before.  Abortion bans don't save babies.  They kill women.

If a woman died while trying to kill an innocent human being that didn't give consent to be put in her body then she deserved it.

Have you given even a moment's thought to the fact that it's frequently the 'innocent human being' that kills the woman because that woman is legally denied an abortion?

Of course you haven't, because you're a cunt.

Boru

(December 10, 2023 at 1:55 am)Fake Messiah Wrote:

(December 10, 2023 at 1:10 am)Dmitry1983 Wrote: If a woman died while trying to kill an innocent human being that didn't give consent to be put in her body then she deserved it.

And people wonder why members of AF are rude. Let me guess, when a theist says something like this he is not rude, but when an atheist responds he is considered rude.

Pro-choicers support genocide. It's everyone's moral obligation to be rude to you.

(December 10, 2023 at 4:51 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(December 10, 2023 at 1:10 am)Dmitry1983 Wrote: If a woman died while trying to kill an innocent human being that didn't give consent to be put in her body then she deserved it.

Have you given even a moment's thought to the fact that it's frequently the 'innocent human being' that kills the woman because that woman is legally denied an abortion?

Of course you haven't, because you're a cunt.

Boru

Frequently? Maternal mortality rate in the US is only 30 deaths per 100,000 births. Also I said several times in other threads that I'm not against abortion if mother's life is in danger.