(January 14, 2024 at 6:33 am)Fake Messiah Wrote:

(January 14, 2024 at 4:38 am)Ahriman Wrote: He might not be omnipotent. What would you think of Him if He couldn't stop wars from happening, but very much wanted to?

The Christian god is supposed to be omnipotent, so your question is pointless.

Jesus isn't the Christian God, Yahweh is the Christian God.

(January 14, 2024 at 7:22 am)Ahriman Wrote:

(January 14, 2024 at 6:33 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: The Christian god is supposed to be omnipotent, so your question is pointless.

Jesus isn't the Christian God, Yahweh is the Christian God.

What’s H. Ghost?

(January 14, 2024 at 7:27 am)h4ym4n Wrote:

(January 14, 2024 at 7:22 am)Ahriman Wrote: Jesus isn't the Christian God, Yahweh is the Christian God.

What’s H. Ghost?

The Holy Ghost / Holy Spirit is a part of the sacred trinity. I don't know if Protestantism upholds a belief in the trinity. I know Catholicism does.

So ghost could be a catlick?

(January 14, 2024 at 6:00 am)Ahriman Wrote:

(January 14, 2024 at 5:16 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I for one would not. If the universe was deliberately created, why would it necessarily be by God/Christ? It could just as easily have been created by alien beings, pan-dimensional mice, or the Great Green Arkleseizure. All names belong in the hat.

Tangentially, I'm curious as to why you posted that link. It appears to be pretty supportive of a non-created or self-created universe.

Boru

Because it makes no sense and the universe is a fucked up holy fantasy made material? Quantum physics proves the universe to be an illogical entity. So illogical, in fact, that a partly human organism capable of walking on water might very well be responsible for the creation of the universe.

Boru

(January 13, 2024 at 11:41 pm)Harry Haller Wrote: 6 attributes of God:
1) God is Infinite, self-existing, without origin
2) God is Immutable, never changing
3) God is Self-sufficient, has no needs
4) God is Omnipotent, all powerful
5) God is Omniscient, all knowing
6) God is Omnipresent, everywhere
This is from a list of 15, but the first 6 sum it up.  

I am none of these things and struggle to understand/conceptualize how a deity with these attributes can exist/interact with my physical world.  It would seem, based on these attributes, that the deity should be able to easily convince me (especially if it created me and wanted me to have a relationship with it) of not just it's existence but also it's greatness.  The fact that no one religion has anywhere close to World-Wide acceptance (Christians make up about 30% of population) seems a direct indication of his inability to live up to his billing.  

I was raised Catholic - baptized, confirmed, married.  I was a lector at mass.  Served on various parrish committees.  Was a member of the Knights of Columbus.  I wanted to believe, but I could not.  I could keep going through the motions, but that is just acting and not really believing.  There are social rewards for conforming but there are personal rewards for living a true and honest life.  

If there is a Christian God then I believe he created me to not believe in him.  I am now fine with that.

Romans 9:18-21 : Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.  One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’” Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

In regards to the bolded part, I think god being immutable and never changing would not work in a universe that is constantly changing. What is the point of a universe being created by or ruled by something that never changes anyway? I am not sure if humanity, which is ever changing in terms of its society, would be something that could be considered compatible with such a being. I find that there is a similar problem with God being all knowing. If he is all knowing and is supposed to care for and love humanity, why does he not often step in to handle it? If at all? I have always thought God was too human-like since he was conceived by humans, and with that, I find it hard to believe such a being would be fit to be above everything else.

That said, those are some of the reasons why nothing could convince me that God exists (This is not towards you, Harry, by the way). God is just an idea used for power over humans, anyway, and even then, God is also many things that are mostly senseless, if not, all of it.

You know, the human race is male dominated, but given how there are species that are female only, and some of those species are even bigger than the males of said species (like spiders), I think that it would have been better if God was female. Even though God does not exist at all, this is the point: God, as well as religion, is based on human biases, and thus, both God and religion are heavily flawed.

@ShinyCrystals

Are you saying God doesn't exist because He isn't a female?

god doesn't exist, because god is make believe.

(January 15, 2024 at 5:23 pm)Ahriman Wrote: @ShinyCrystals

Are you saying God doesn't exist because He isn't a female?

I listed other reasons why God wouldn't or can't exist. Even then, I was never saying God can't exist because he is not female, but it would make more sense for him to be female; the biases of humanity just thought of him being male instead of female.

Seriously, how can you make replies like that asking me about the reasons why I believe something when you can't seem to read what I said properly, let alone not acknowledge all of it since there was more to what I said than the female part.

Hi Shiny Crystals (and Harry Haller),

How's it going? Is it below zero where you are? It is here!

(January 15, 2024 at 5:09 pm)ShinyCrystals Wrote:

(January 13, 2024 at 11:41 pm)Harry Haller Wrote: 6 attributes of God:
1) God is Infinite, self-existing, without origin
2) God is Immutable, never changing

[Good list and discussion deleted]

In regards to the bolded part, I think god being immutable and never changing would not work in a universe that is constantly changing. What is the point of a universe being created by or ruled by something that never changes anyway? I am not sure if humanity, which is ever changing in terms of its society, would be something that could be considered compatible with such a being.

This is definitely a hard concept to get my head around. Yet I find that god being immutable and never changing is actually comforting. There is nothing I can count on in this world. (other than death and taxes, I guess) On the other hand, I can count on God always being God.

(January 15, 2024 at 5:09 pm)ShinyCrystals Wrote: I find that there is a similar problem with God being all knowing. If he is all knowing and is supposed to care for and love humanity, why does he not often step in to handle it? If at all?

This too is one of the big problems. For me, the key is like Harry Haller said, “I am none of these things.” I am not all knowing. I can think of ways that are good ways to solve problems, and maybe, to some degree, they are good ways. But I don’t know everything. There could be all kinds of reasons that I can’t see why my solution is less than another solution.