(March 14, 2024 at 6:27 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote: Religions are good at creating sheep.

Dictators require sheep.

It's actually the opposite. Religion creates people who think they are rebelling against the status quo, when in reality they are not, but they all think that about themselves. The real sheep are the ones who have such a deep longing to be with God that this world simply doesn't matter to them.

(March 14, 2024 at 7:04 pm)Ahriman Wrote:

(March 14, 2024 at 6:27 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote: Religions are good at creating sheep.

Dictators require sheep.

It's actually the opposite. Religion creates people who think they are rebelling against the status quo, when in reality they are not, but they all think that about themselves. The real sheep are the ones who have such a deep longing to be with God that this world simply doesn't matter to them.

Please do shut up.

(March 14, 2024 at 7:04 pm)Ahriman Wrote: Religion creates people who think they are rebelling against the status quo, when in reality they are not, but they all think that about themselves.

I think this is not just religion. Probably the most widespread value in all of American culture is that each of us believes we are rebelling against the status quo. Atheists think they are. Many Christians think they are. 

Maybe the most insulting thing you can tell an American is "you aren't an independent thinker. You aren't a rebel. You get all your values from your society."

Yet very little of the "rebellion" is real. It's mostly performative. For example, the fashion industry tells us exactly what clothes to wear if we want to tell others that we're free-thinkers and not influenced by the fashion industry. Blue jeans and Chucks. A conformist performance of non-conformity. 

Values and ideology are extremely deep and widespread, and mostly the same for both religious and non-religious. (Nor am I exempt!)

Quote: The real sheep are the ones who have such a deep longing to be with God that this world simply doesn't matter to them.

To me, anyone who genuinely ignores the values of his culture to pursue some other value is a sheep in one way, and a rebel in another. If you are passionate about some goal I guess you could say you are obedient to that goal. But you're not sheep-like to the rest of the culture. 

I admire those eccentrics who can genuinely focus on their own thing, and step outside the web that our society traps us in. We know that such people will be vilified by the normies, but they have their own reward.

Don't trust everything you hear. Unless it's me sneaking around your place in the middle of the night. That shit is real.

(March 14, 2024 at 8:38 pm)Belacqua Wrote:

(March 14, 2024 at 7:04 pm)Ahriman Wrote: Religion creates people who think they are rebelling against the status quo, when in reality they are not, but they all think that about themselves.

I think this is not just religion. Probably the most widespread value in all of American culture is that each of us believes we are rebelling against the status quo. Atheists think they are. Many Christians think they are. 

Maybe the most insulting thing you can tell an American is "you aren't an independent thinker. You aren't a rebel. You get all your values from your society."

Yet very little of the "rebellion" is real. It's mostly performative. For example, the fashion industry tells us exactly what clothes to wear if we want to tell others that we're free-thinkers and not influenced by the fashion industry. Blue jeans and Chucks. A conformist performance of non-conformity. 

Values and ideology are extremely deep and widespread, and mostly the same for both religious and non-religious. (Nor am I exempt!)

Quote: The real sheep are the ones who have such a deep longing to be with God that this world simply doesn't matter to them.

To me, anyone who genuinely ignores the values of his culture to pursue some other value is a sheep in one way, and a rebel in another. If you are passionate about some goal I guess you could say you are obedient to that goal. But you're not sheep-like to the rest of the culture. 

I admire those eccentrics who can genuinely focus on their own thing, and step outside the web that our society traps us in. We know that such people will be vilified by the normies, but they have their own reward.

Oh look, a slam at America.

Color me shocked.

(March 14, 2024 at 8:48 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: ]
Oh look, a slam at America.

Color me shocked.

I do it all the time.

(March 14, 2024 at 8:48 pm)arewethereyet Wrote:

(March 14, 2024 at 8:38 pm)Belacqua Wrote: I think this is not just religion. Probably the most widespread value in all of American culture is that each of us believes we are rebelling against the status quo. Atheists think they are. Many Christians think they are. 

Maybe the most insulting thing you can tell an American is "you aren't an independent thinker. You aren't a rebel. You get all your values from your society."

Yet very little of the "rebellion" is real. It's mostly performative. For example, the fashion industry tells us exactly what clothes to wear if we want to tell others that we're free-thinkers and not influenced by the fashion industry. Blue jeans and Chucks. A conformist performance of non-conformity. 

Values and ideology are extremely deep and widespread, and mostly the same for both religious and non-religious. (Nor am I exempt!)


To me, anyone who genuinely ignores the values of his culture to pursue some other value is a sheep in one way, and a rebel in another. If you are passionate about some goal I guess you could say you are obedient to that goal. But you're not sheep-like to the rest of the culture. 

I admire those eccentrics who can genuinely focus on their own thing, and step outside the web that our society traps us in. We know that such people will be vilified by the normies, but they have their own reward.

Oh look, a slam at America.

Color me shocked.

Just substitute "Japan" for "atheist" or "American" in his rhetoric. SSDD

(March 14, 2024 at 8:38 pm)Belacqua Wrote: I admire those eccentrics who can genuinely focus on their own thing, and step outside the web that our society traps us in. We know that such people will be vilified by the normies, but they have their own reward.

I hate most people for this very reason.

Hey ahri, what planet are you from?

(March 14, 2024 at 9:04 pm)Fireball Wrote:

(March 14, 2024 at 8:48 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Oh look, a slam at America.

Color me shocked.

Just substitute "Japan" for "atheist" or "American" in his rhetoric. SSDD

I'm not sure what you want me to do here. 

Japanese people certainly tend to conform to strong social norms. However, pretending to be a rebel is not one of the norms. Rebelliousness doesn't have the cachet that it does in some other places. 

At the same time, there is a tradition of eccentricity being tolerated. 18th century Kyoto had guidebooks of artists and poets who were considered oddball geniuses. Today the eccentrics tend to focus on different things, but they can still be very odd. True, their lifestyles often follow a consistent pattern -- a decided way to be eccentric. 

If I say something about America, this doesn't automatically mean that Japan is the opposite, or better, or immune from criticism. 

What does SSDD mean?