Ferrocyanide:
 
The term “Church” has become very widespread indeed. Technically, even Muslim communities in the US are a “church” of some sort. Students of Paramahansa Yogananda are also describing themselves as “missionaries” of God. And there is nothing wrong with that for me. It simply strengthens my idea of “Separation of Church and State”
 
GrandNudger:
1) I’m a hetero, so to me it’s like a 10 year old kid holding a hand-grenade or a razor-sharp knife or something like that. The hijab (this kind of hijab) is a very strong symbol. And I believe it is also partly responsible for the far-right disaster that has just happened in European parliament elections a few days ago.
 
Not all Europeans are the civilized / highly intelligent individuals that we usually think of in other parts of the planet. Some of them are complete philistines under a mask of culturally more sophisticated persons. There is no denying this. But this guys (people with the hijab) are increasing the pressure of them. They go as far as portraying people who simply don’t like their way of doing this as “anti-Islam” or “racists” (Just like Jewish extremists call us anti-Semites whenever we say something that goes against their way of doing things).
 
So yes: This image is a scary image. I totally don’t like it. And it’s utterly stupid to believe that you can achieve any level of spiritual growth by terrorizing other people like this.
 
Of course: you know that I totally respect more “normal” types of headscarves when they have a cultural and/or sincerely spiritual meaning for that person.
 
2) Yes. But I say this has to change. No one is going to follow that kind of approach in our time unless they are forced or brainwashed into it. All parts of society have the potential to evolve. Religious institutions have also the ability of evolve and change
 
3) That type of Islam / Political Islam are not really a match for me.

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I grew up identifying with the most famous figures of resistance who would rather give up their lives suffering under the hands of the Gestapo rather than betraying their cause of freedom and independence. So of course I don’t eat that type of meat
 
But I also met “other” types of Islamic doctrines. In fact, that’s the main school of Islam if you are willing to look at it straight.
 
The problem in our time is that if you have means like social media, TV stations who say whatever you want them to says, followers who were indoctrinated into doing whatever you tell them is the right way to do things, there are these “methods” that will allow you to do things in the way your own Ego is dictating you.
 
If Putin is doing it in Georgia, If he tried and failed to do stuff like that in Ukraine, Do you think other people with even more financial means will not try it in other parts of the world. Look at Narendra Modi and His BJP Party in India. He splits Indian society in two, he polarizes, he hates Muslims (who are an integral part of Indian society since several millennia), alienates the Sikh and the Christians (spread hatred toward them like Trump spread hatred toward those who don’t believe his lies), he undermines secularism, He hates the theory of evolution (that’s the one I really don’t get, why does one remove the theory of evolution from biology classes?), the economy is growing by 10 % a year but still the poor stay poor and still youth-unemployment is rising.
 
This is like the story of the AK Party here, only a bit further to the east.
 

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So it’s not a “religion” thing. This is populism / fascism. And it’s as old as the Pharaohs of Egypt actually. But this is not the Age of Ramses II. This is the age that follows enlightenment and the Industrial revolution. So while some people are a little slow in getting it. This is the reality of our time. I like reason and true facts. I don’t like indoctrination and brainwashing based arguments. And I am saying that true spirituality is like this too. You’re probably understanding this by now.

Still polishing the turd. I wonder if you're trying to convince yourself, or other people?

Yes, they are all churches. It doesn’t matter if it is for muslims or jews or hindus.
Theists tend to create personalized words.
Other words are priests, cardinals, bishop, imam, rabi. They are all essentially the same thing.

A church is essentially a school to learn about the religion in question.
At the same time, the priest asks for money and might also talk about who the enemy is, which war is good, which president is good for the church.

(June 12, 2024 at 12:17 pm)Leonardo17 Wrote: So yes: This image is a scary image. I totally don’t like it. And it’s utterly stupid to believe that you can achieve any level of spiritual growth by terrorizing other people like this.
 

It is part of being in an abrahamic religion.
The followers of one of these religions tend to view themselves as absolutely correct and they view the other versions of the religion as being corrupt assholes that must be wiped because god hates them.

I think each sect realizes that calm discussions doesn’t work. They never succeed in converting the “others”.
There are some sects that seem to accept that they are the 10 or 20 that are going to be saved and the billions of others are going to hell. They accept it and they don’t try to convert others.

(June 12, 2024 at 12:17 pm)Leonardo17 Wrote: That type of Islam / Political Islam are not really a match for me.

Why are you into the Islam religion?

(June 13, 2024 at 10:02 pm)Ferrocyanide Wrote: It is part of being in an abrahamic religion.

And not necessarily Abrahamic. Muslim Rohingas have been persecuted too ... by Buddhists. So too are Muslims and Sikhs in India persecuted by Hindus. This whole "if you don't believe as I do you are subhuman" runs across the spectrum.

(June 13, 2024 at 10:02 pm)Ferrocyanide Wrote: Yes, they are all churches. It doesn’t matter if it is for muslims or jews or hindus.
Theists tend to create personalized words.
Other words are priests, cardinals, bishop, imam, rabi. They are all essentially the same thing.

A church is essentially a school to learn about the religion in question.
At the same time, the priest asks for money and might also talk about who the enemy is, which war is good, which president is good for the church.

(June 12, 2024 at 12:17 pm)Leonardo17 Wrote: So yes: This image is a scary image. I totally don’t like it. And it’s utterly stupid to believe that you can achieve any level of spiritual growth by terrorizing other people like this.
 

It is part of being in an abrahamic religion.
The followers of one of these religions tend to view themselves as absolutely correct and they view the other versions of the religion as being corrupt assholes that must be wiped because god hates them.

I think each sect realizes that calm discussions doesn’t work. They never succeed in converting the “others”.
There are some sects that seem to accept that they are the 10 or 20 that are going to be saved and the billions of others are going to hell. They accept it and they don’t try to convert others.

(June 12, 2024 at 12:17 pm)Leonardo17 Wrote: That type of Islam / Political Islam are not really a match for me.

Why are you into the Islam religion?

As I already said before: Everything you are describing: “Our way is the best / we got it right, everybody else is wrong” is an Ego based approach that belongs to the previous spiritual dark age. In our time this consciousness is gradually shifting to a more introspective, more inclusive and more practical type of spirituality.
 
But this change is happening slowly and gradually. So while some people (like myself) are asking more spiritual question with a more logical and realistic approach others are still under the spell of the previous spiritual dark-age.
 
That’s the stuff I’m working on these days: In the dark-age consciousness there is no room for spirituality because these people do not even have a perception other than the physical. When they die, they think they will go to a place of endless material pleasures, after having been tortured by (material) demons for their (material) sins.
 
I believe in a world of energy. Physics has proven that matter is actually nothing but energy. So that’s a whole new consciousness with a whole different approach toward scriptures and spirituality in general. So if the same adjective is being used to describe both of us there is nothing I can do about it. 
 
But as I said, the difference is on a subtle level. Most of these guys don’t believe in subtle issues either. In the past there has been religious wars because of this. In my country serious mystics where murdered (in the Middle Ages) for having ideas like this.  
 
One think that is new now is that they don’t have the upper-hand anymore. So they are also aware that things are gradually shifting.
 
And this doesn’t change the reality on the ground for now. So when atheist are critical about “Religion” I am still unable to deny the validity of their argument

(June 16, 2024 at 11:12 am)Leonardo17 Wrote: As I already said before: Everything you are describing: “Our way is the best / we got it right, everybody else is wrong” is an Ego based approach that belongs to the previous spiritual dark age. In our time this consciousness is gradually shifting to a more introspective, more inclusive and more practical type of spirituality.
 
But this change is happening slowly and gradually. So while some people (like myself) are asking more spiritual question with a more logical and realistic approach others are still under the spell of the previous spiritual dark-age.
 
That’s the stuff I’m working on these days: In the dark-age consciousness there is no room for spirituality because these people do not even have a perception other than the physical. When they die, they think they will go to a place of endless material pleasures, after having been tortured by (material) demons for their (material) sins.
 
I believe in a world of energy. Physics has proven that matter is actually nothing but energy. So that’s a whole new consciousness with a whole different approach toward scriptures and spirituality in general. So if the same adjective is being used to describe both of us there is nothing I can do about it. 

What are you working on? Are you experimenting with devices?

Wait, I thought energy, the universe, subatomic particles, space, photons, gravity....all of it was called the "material world".