I would love it if Harris picked Mark Kelly. A senator from a swing state and former astronaut and naval aviator. Masters in Aeronautical Engineering. Good balance for the ticket, nice to have a science guy in the WH, and popular enough to turn Arizona blue, at least for one election.

^The RWNJs would lose their mind. Gun control? clutch my pearls!

(July 22, 2024 at 10:38 pm)Ivan Denisovich Wrote:

(July 22, 2024 at 3:01 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: You left out Adams, Hayes, and Harrison.

They didn’t ’fuck things up’. They were following Constitutional law. Outdated law, to be sure, but barring an amendment, they had no choice.

American presidents are not elected by popular vote. Never have been.

Boru

I didn't particularly cared above three mentioned by you. Also not being American I don't care all that much for how exactly system works - I simply see president "winning" elections despite losing popular vote as a parody and proof of failure of the system. In my view it is popular vote that reigns supreme.

But it’s NOT the ‘failure of the system’. It’s the system they saddled themselves with.

I agree that it’s a poor system and needs to be changed. They changed how the Vice President and Senators are elected, they can change this.

Boru

(July 23, 2024 at 12:40 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(July 22, 2024 at 10:38 pm)Ivan Denisovich Wrote: I didn't particularly cared above three mentioned by you. Also not being American I don't care all that much for how exactly system works - I simply see president "winning" elections despite losing popular vote as a parody and proof of failure of the system. In my view it is popular vote that reigns supreme.

But it’s NOT the ‘failure of the system’. It’s the system they saddled themselves with.

I agree that it’s a poor system and needs to be changed. They changed how the Vice President and Senators are elected, they can change this.

Boru

It is the failure of the system, from the very roots. For me at least system that allows for will of the people to be trampled is nothing more than a failure.

(July 23, 2024 at 12:50 pm)Ivan Denisovich Wrote:

(July 23, 2024 at 12:40 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: But it’s NOT the ‘failure of the system’. It’s the system they saddled themselves with.

I agree that it’s a poor system and needs to be changed. They changed how the Vice President and Senators are elected, they can change this.

Boru

It is the failure of the system, from the very roots. For me at least system that allows for will of the people to be trampled is nothing more than a failure.

But the ‘will of the people’ was never part of the system. Calling losing the popular vote and winning the EC a failure is like returning your toaster to the shop because it doesn’t wash your dishes.

Boru

(July 23, 2024 at 1:48 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(July 23, 2024 at 12:50 pm)Ivan Denisovich Wrote: It is the failure of the system, from the very roots. For me at least system that allows for will of the people to be trampled is nothing more than a failure.

But the ‘will of the people’ was never part of the system. Calling losing the popular vote and winning the EC a failure is like returning your toaster to the shop because it doesn’t wash your dishes.

Boru

If the will of the people was never part of the system then system was even more a failure than I previously thought. Simple as that. I don't give a damn about intentions of bunch of dead dudes in wigs - if they designed system to ignore will of the people then they're designed big pile of crap.

(July 23, 2024 at 2:15 pm)Ivan Denisovich Wrote:

(July 23, 2024 at 1:48 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: But the ‘will of the people’ was never part of the system. Calling losing the popular vote and winning the EC a failure is like returning your toaster to the shop because it doesn’t wash your dishes.

Boru

If the will of the people was never part of the system then system was even more a failure than I previously thought. Simple as that. I don't give a damn about intentions of bunch of dead dudes in wigs - if they designed system to ignore will of the people then they're designed big pile of crap.

I agree that the EC is crap. But you can’t call the system a failure when it’s working as intended.

Boru

(July 23, 2024 at 2:26 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(July 23, 2024 at 2:15 pm)Ivan Denisovich Wrote: If the will of the people was never part of the system then system was even more a failure than I previously thought. Simple as that. I don't give a damn about intentions of bunch of dead dudes in wigs - if they designed system to ignore will of the people then they're designed big pile of crap.

I agree that the EC is crap. But you can’t call the system a failure when it’s working as intended.

Boru

I can. If it is working as intended it still is a failure as it clearly shits all over the will of the people and thus is creating a dangerous precedent. Additionally creating a system for electing president which allows for ignoring the result of popular vote is failure in very concept, at least in my view.

ETA: Also if intent of the creators was to stop demagogues from gaining power then system they designed is a double failure given trump "victory".

*sigh* Ok, then.

Boru

(July 23, 2024 at 12:29 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: I would love it if Harris picked Mark Kelly. A senator from a swing state and former astronaut and naval aviator. Masters in Aeronautical Engineering. Good balance for the ticket, nice to have a science guy in the WH, and popular enough to turn Arizona blue, at least for one election.

The main neg I see is that he's a senator and that might could change that fine balance.