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~~soulcalm17~~ · (This post was last modified: July 26, 2024 at 8:06 am by arewethereyet.)

[quote pid='2204886' dateline='1721360621']
I don’t mind. Take your time.

Also, you would have to explain what is in the Koran that makes it impossible for a human to write.
Is that your view of all religious texts?
What about other works of text form, such as the story of Superman?
What about scientific text?
What about music?
What about software?
What about short Youtube videos? Any videos?

Can you list ALL content that is made by the jewish? I understand that you want to include the Koran in that list.
You just need to mention what else. For now, you don’t have to substantiate it.
[/quote]

I conclude that Quran is not human made, because:

1. The writing style and composition is very distinctive and outperformed high ranked poem made by Arabs, that no poems or any literature in Arabic can equal it until present.

2. The texts itself compose of prophecies that are true. Rationally, human can not do prophecies.

3. The texts itself contains science facts that impossible people from that era to know.

Examples (All of these examples I quoted from “13 Scientific Facts from Holy Quran”)

Continue here

a. “Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them” (Quran, Al Anbiya’ 21:30)

This is the big bang theory.

b. “The Day when We will fold the heaven like the folding of a [written] sheet for the records. As We began the first creation, We will repeat it. [That is] a promise binding upon Us. Indeed, We will do it” (Quran, Al Anbiya’ 21:104).

This fits in with the theory of Big Crunch which talks about how the universe will be pulled back into the black holes and again form a tiny mass.

c. We created man from an extract of clay. Then We made him as a drop in a place of settlement, firmly fixed. Then We made the drop into an alaqah (leech, suspended thing, and blood clot), then We made the alaqah into a mudghah (chewed substance)…” (Quran, Al Mu’minun 23:12-14).

This is embryology.

d. “And We made the sky a protected ceiling, but they, from its signs, are turning away” (Quran, Al Anbiya’ 21:32).

It is a scientific fact that the sky, with all of its gasses, protects the earth and life that is present on it from the harmful rays of the sun. If there was no protective layer, life on earth would cease to exist as the temperature on earth would be freezing at -270.556°C, the same as the temperature in space.

e. “We sent down Iron with its great inherent strength and its many benefits for humankind” (Quran, Al Hadid 57:25)

Iron is not natural to the earth. Scientists state that billions of years ago, the earth was struck by meteorites. It was within these meteorites that iron was present and due to explosion on earth, we now have iron available to us. The Quran, as stated above, has already enlightened us of this fact by stating “We sent down iron with its great inherent strength…”.

f. “He released the two seas, meeting [side by side], Between them is a barrier [so] neither of them transgresses” (Quran, Ar Rahman 55:19-20)

Science has discovered that in places where two different seas meet, there is a barrier that divides them which helps both the seas maintain their own temperature, salinity, as well as density.

g. “And it is He who created the night and the day and the sun and the moon; all [heavenly bodies] in an orbit are swimming” (Quran, Al Anbiya’ 21:33)

Although it was only a widespread belief in the 20th century amongst the astronomers, today it is a well-established fact that the Sun, the Moon, and all the other bodies in the Universe are moving in an orbit and constantly moving, not stationary as commonly thought before.

h. “Have We not made the earth a resting place? And the mountains as stakes?” (Quran, Al Qiyamah 78:6-7)

In a book by geophysicist Frank Press called ‘Earth’ (1986), he explains how the mountains are like stakes and are buried deep within the earth’s surface. Mt. Everest which has a height of approximately 9 km above sea level has a root deeper than 125 km – thus only reinforcing the Quranic revelation of the importance and strength of mountains on our earth.

i. “And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander” (Quran, Adh Dhariyat 51:47)

According to the prominent physicist Stephen Hawking in his book ‘A Brief History of Time’, “The discovery that the universe is expanding was one of the great intellectual revolutions of the 20th century”, although centuries before the Quran had already revealed to us that in regards to the universe, “We are its expander”.

j. “We shall send those who reject our revelations to the (hell) fire. When their skins have been burned away, We shall replace them with new ones so that they may continue to feel the pain: God is almighty, all-wise” (Quran, An Nisa 4:56)

For a long time it was thought that the sense of feeling and pain was dependent on the brain. However, it has been discovered that there are pain receptors present in the skin. Without these pain receptors, a person would not be able to feel pain – another example of the scientific miracles of the Holy Quran.

k. “Or [they are] like darknesses within an unfathomable sea which is covered by waves, upon which are waves, over which are clouds – darknesses, some of them upon others. When one puts out his hand [therein], he can hardly see it. And he to whom Allah has not granted light – for him there is no light” (Quran, An Nur 24:40)

Incredibly, oceanographers have stated that unlike the belief that waves only occur on the surface, there are waves that take place internally in the oceans, below the surface of the water. Invisible to the human eye, these can only be detected through special equipment.

l. “No indeed! if he does not stop, We will seize him by the forehead, his lying, sinful forehead” (Quran, Al Alaq 96:15-16)

According to a book titled ‘Essentials of Anatomy and Physiology,’ it is clearly stated that the forehead or frontal area of the brain is responsible for motivation and the foresight to plan and initiate movements. All this takes place in the prefrontal area of the brain. The part of the brain that is responsible for movement and planning is said to be seized if he does not stop. Other studies have proved that it is this prefrontal region that is responsible for the function of lying.

So, you want other evidence besides the Quran, that the evidence is from God. Okay, I will mention it.

The evidence is in the Song of Solomon, the Gospel of Barnabas, the Vedas, and the Buddhist Scriptures, some of which I have mentioned in my previous posts. That each of the books mentions that there will be a Prophet named Muhammad. For the Song of Solomon, the Gospel of Barnabas, and the Vedas I have mentioned them. However, I think it is necessary to explain in more detail from the Vedas and also from the Buddhist scriptures.

The Prophecy of the Prophet Muhammad in the Hindu Scriptures

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This Source I got from “Zakir Naik: Nabi Muhammad disebut Dalam Kitab Hindu Berulang Kali (Zakir Naik: The Prophet Muhammad is mentioned in Hindu scriptures repeatedly)” in Baitulmaqdis.com

A. Prophecies in the Atharvaveda book:

1. “O people, hear this truly, Narashanga (the blessed One) will be raised among the people. We took the Kaurum (Muhajirin) under our protection from 60,000 and 90 enemies; whose vehicle was 20 camels and 2 female camels, had 12 wives, and ascended to the sky with the fastest vehicle (Bouraq)..." (Atharvaveda Kanda 20 Saukata 127, Mantra 1-2).

Narashangsa = The praised one = Muhammad. The word "Kauram" means "emigrant", namely people who leave their own country, in Arabic: "Muhajirin". Muhammad and his followers when they emigrated from Mecca to Medina to escape attacks by the Meccan infidels, numbering 60,000 people and their 90 tribal chiefs, were known as the "Muhajirin", while the people of Medina who welcomed them were known as the "Ansar". This is where the milestone begins for the Hijriyah Year (hijrah = move). The vehicles used by Muhammad were camels and horses. Muhammad had 12 wives, namely: Khadijah, Saudah, Aisyah, Hafsah, Zainah, Umm Salamah, Zainab, Juwairiah, Raihanah, Umm Habibah, Shafiah, and Maimunah. When performing the Mi'raj from the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Palestine to the 7th heaven, Muhammad rode a Bouraq which was his fastest vehicle.

2. “God will give Mamaha Rishi one hundred gold coins, ten necklaces, three hundred horses and 10,000 cows.” (Atharvaveda Kanda 20 Saukata 127, Mantra 3).

The word "Mamaha" etymologically comes from Arabic: "Muhammad" which means "praiseworthy one", while "Mamaha Rishi" is a nickname for Narashangsa, so that Mamaha Rishi = Narashangsa = Muhammad = Praiseworthy One. "One hundred pieces of gold" means one hundred followers of Muhammad, who spread the religion of Allah, called "Ash-Shabus Shuffah". "Ten necklaces" means ten people who always helped Muhammad in the war called "Asy-Syara Mubasysyara". "Three hundred horses" means the 300 troops led by Muhammad when they faced 700 infidel Meccan troops in the Battle of Badr (HG Wells, The Outline of History, 1949). "10,000 cows" means 10,000 followers of Muhammad when they entered the city of Mecca (630 AD) in a safe and peaceful condition, which is known as the "Fathu Makkah" event (Stanley Lane Poole, Speeches and Table Talks of the Prophet Mohammed, 1882).

3. – “Mamaha is a camel rider from the desert region”(Atharvaveda 20:9:31);

B. Prophecies in the Rigveda:

-”Mamaha was famous for his 10,000 followers” (Rigveda 5:27:1);-”During Mamaha's time, new hymns (new shariah) would be composed and recited during services in place of the Vedas namely Jamat (congregation) and Salat (prayer)” ( Rigveda 1:109:2);

C. The prophecies in the Bhagavata-Purana include:

“His father was named Vishnu-Yash.” (Bhagavata-Purana 12:2:18).

“He is adorned with eight qualities and riches, riding a fast horse (Bouraq) given to him by the angels and holding a sword in his hand, the savior of the world will destroy all evil.” (Bhagavata-Purana 12:2:19).

The “fast horse” was Bouraq and Muhammad always carried a sword and/or arrows when fighting. In the hadith book Sahih Imam Bukhari, from Anas he said: "I once saw the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad) riding a horse with a sword hanging beside him." (Hadith Bukhari).

D. Prophecies in the Kalki-Purana:

"O God, together with four friends, I will destroy evil." (Kalki-Purana 2:5).

Muhammad had 4 friends who are famous until now who are called "Khulafaur Rasyidin" namely: Abu Bakar ash-Shidiq, Umar bin Khatab, Uthman bin 'Affan, and Ali bin Abu Talib.

"Kalki Avatar will be born in the city of Shambal, his mother is named Sumati, together with four of his friends will defeat Kali (devil/evil).... He will be assisted by angels on the battlefield." (Kalki-Purana 2:4-7).

“He was born on the 12th bright day, in the middle of the month of Madhav.” (Kalki-Purana 2:15).

The word “Shambhal” means: home of peace and security. Muhammad was born in the city of Mecca which is known as “Darul Aman” which also means: home of peace and security. His mother's name was "Sumati" which means: gentle and intelligent. Muhammad's mother's name was "Aminah" which also means: gentle. His father was named "Vishnu-Yash" which means: servant of God (Vishnu = God). Muhammad's father was named "Abdullah" which also means: servant of Allah/God. The "four friends" were Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, and Ali. Kalki Avatar was assisted by angels on the battlefield. During the Battle of Badr, Muhammad was assisted by angels (QS. Al Imran: 123-125), also in the Battle of Khandaq, Muhammad was assisted by angels (QS. Al-Ahazab: 9). Kalki Avatar was born on the 12th day of Madhav month. Muhammad was also born on the 12th day, precisely the 12th of Rabiul Awwal, the Year of the Elephant (Before Hijriyah). So, Kalki Avatar is none other than Muhammad, while "Kalki Avatar" itself means: the cleanser of sins who came to the world.

For Buddhism, there are also predictions about the coming of the Prophet Muhammad as I explain below:

This source I got from Muhammad (peace be upon him) in Buddhist scriptures by Dr. Zakir Naik:

1. Buddha prophesised the advent of a Maitreya:

A) Almost all Buddhist books contain this prophecy. It is in Chakkavatti Sinhnad Suttanta D. III, 76: "There will arise in the world a Buddha named Maitreya (the benevolent one) a holy one, a supreme one, an enlightened one, endowed with wisdom in conduct, auspicious, knowing the universe:

"What he has realized by his own supernatural knowledge he will publish to this universe. He will preach his religion, glorious in its origin, glorious at its climax, glorious at the goal, in the spirit and the letter. He will proclaim a religious life, wholly perfect and thoroughly pure; even as I now preach my religion and a like life do proclaim. He will keep up the society of monks numbering many thousands, even as now I keep up a society of monks numbering many hundreds".

B) According to Sacred Books of the East volume 35 pg. 225: "It is said that I am not an only Buddha upon whom the leadership and order is dependent. After me another Buddha maitreya of such and such virtues will come. I am now the leader of hundreds, he will be the leader of thousands."

C) According to the Gospel of Buddha by Carus pg. 217 and 218 (From Ceylon sources): "Ananda said to the Blessed One, "Who shall teach us when thou art gone?" And the Blessed one replied, 'I am not the first Buddha who came upon the earth nor shall I be the last. In due time another Buddha will arise in the world, a holy one, a supremely enlightened one, endowed with wisdom in conduct, auspicious, knowing the universe, an incomparable leader of men, a master of angels and mortals. He will reveal to you the same eternal truths, which I have taught you. He will preach his religion, glorious in its origin, glorious at the climax and glorious at the goal. He will proclaim a religious life, wholly perfect and pure such as I now proclaim. His disciples will number many thousands while mine number many hundreds.'

Ananda said, 'How shall we know him?'

The Blessed one replied, 'He will be known as Maitreya'."

(i) The Sanskrit word "Maitreya" or its equivalent in Pali "Metteyya" means loving, compassionate, merciful and benevolent. It also means kindness and friendliness, sympathy, etc. One Arabic word which is equivalent to all these words is "Rahmat". In Surah Al-Anbiya: "We sent thee not, but as a mercy for all creatures." [Al-Qur'an 21:107]

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was called the merciful, which is "Maitri".

(ii) The words Mercy and Merciful are mentioned in the Holy Qur'ân no less than 409 times.

(iii) Every chapter of the Glorious Qur'ân, except Chapter 9, i.e. Surah Taubah begins with the beautiful formula, 'Bismillah Hir-Rahman Nir-Rahim', which means 'In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful'.

(iv) The Word Muhammad is also spelt as 'Mahamet' or 'Mahomet' and in various other ways in different languages. The word 'Maho' or 'Maha' in Pali and Sanskrit mean Great and Illustrious and 'Metta' means mercy. Therefore 'Mahomet' means 'Great Mercy'.

2. Buddha's doctrine was Esoteric and Exoteric:

According to Sacred Books of the East, volume 11, pg. 36 Maha-Parinibbana Sutta chapter 2 verse 32:

"I have preached the truth without making any distinction between exoteric and esoteric doctrine, for in respect of truths, Ananda, the Tathagata has no such thing as the closed fist of a teacher, who keeps something back".

Muhammad (peace be upon him) on the commandment of Almighty God delivered the message and doctrine without making any distinction between esoteric and exoteric. The Qur'ân was recited in public in the days of the Prophet and is being done so till date. The Prophet had strictly forbidden the Muslims from hiding the doctrine.

3. Devoted Servitors of the Buddhas:

According to Sacred Books of the East volume 11 pg. 97 Maha-Parinibbana Sutta Chapter 5 verse 36: "Then the Blessed one addressed the brethren, and said, "Whosoever, brethren have been Arahat-Buddhas through the long ages of the past, they were servitors just as devoted to those Blessed ones as Ananda has been to me. And whosoever brethren shall be the Arahat-Buddhas of the future, there shall be servitors as devoted to those Blessed ones as Ananda has been to me"."

The Servitor of Buddha was Ananda. Muhammad (peace be upon him) also had a servitor by the name Anas (r.a.) who was the son of Malik. Anas (r.a...) was presented to the Prophet by his parents. Anas (r.a...) relates: "My mother said to him, 'Oh Messenger of God, here is your little servant'." Further Anas relates, "I served him from the time I was 8 years old and the Prophet called me his son and his little beloved". Anas (r.a...) stayed by the Prophet in peace and in war, in safety as well as in danger till the end of his life.

i) Anas (r.a.), even though he was only 11 years old stayed beside the Prophet during the battle of Uhud where the Prophet's life was in great danger.

ii) Even during the battle of Hunain when the Prophet was surrounded by the enemies who were archers, Anas who was only 16 years old stood by the Prophet.

Anas can surely be compared with Ananda who stood by Gautama Buddha when the mad elephant approached him.

4. Six Criteria for Identifying Buddha:

According to the Gospel of Buddha by Carus pg. 214:

"The Blessed one said, "There are two occasions on which a Tathagata's appearance becomes clear and exceedingly bright. In the night Ananda, in which a Tathagata attains to the supreme and perfect insight, and in the night in which he passes finally away in that ultra passing which leaves nothing whatever of his earthly existence to remain.' "

According to Gautam Buddha, following are the six criteria for identifying a Buddha.

i) A Buddha attains supreme and perfect insight at night-time.

ii) On the occasion of his complete enlightenment he looks exceedingly bright

iii) A Buddha dies a natural death.

iv) He dies at night-time.

v) He looks exceedingly bright before his death.

vi) After his death a Buddha ceases to exist on earth.

i) Muhammad (peace be upon him) attained supreme insight and Prophethood at night-time.

According to Surah Dukhan: "By the books that makes thing clear ? We sent it down during a blessed night." [Al-Qur'ân 44:2-3]

According to Surah Al-Qadar: "We have indeed revealed this (message) in the night of power." [Al-Qur'ân 97:1]

ii) Muhammad (peace be upon him) instantly felt his understanding illumined with celestial light.

iii) Muhammad (peace be upon him) died a natural death.

iv) According to Ayesha, Muhammad (peace be upon him) expired at night-time. When he was dying there was no oil in the lamp and his wife Ayesha (r.a.) had to borrow oil for the lamp.

v) According to Anas, Muhammad (peace be upon him) looked exceedingly bright in the night of his death.

vi) After the burial of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) he was never seen again in his bodily form on this earth.

5. Buddhas are only Preachers:

According to Dhammapada, Sacred Books of East volume 10 pg., 67:

"The Jathagatas (Buddhas) are only Preachers."

The Qur'ân says in Surah Ghashiya: "Therefore do thou give admonition, for thou art one to admonish. Thou art not one to manage (men's) affairs." [Al-Qur'ân 88:21-22]

6. Identification of Maitreya by Buddha:

According to Dhammapada, Mattaya Sutta, 151:

"The promised one will be:

i) Compassionate for the whole creation

ii) A messenger of peace, a peace-maker

iii) The most successful in the world.

The Maitreya as a Preacher of morals will be:

i) Truthful

ii) Self-respecting

iii) Gentle and noble

iv) Not proud

v) As a king to creatures

vi) An example to others in deeds and in words".

All of those books were written before the prophethood of Muhammad ﷺ coming.

Although the delivery uses human language, the content of the information in the holy books above concerns an object in the future. Because humans cannot possibly know the exact name of a person in the future, moreover the details of their mother's name, father's name, and other related things (as prophesied in the Hindu Book above), it can be concluded that humans get it from outside themselves.

Because there was information about the future, then there must be someone who makes that information. If someone makes it, it means there is an entity. This entity can convey messages. Indicating that this entity is alive and intelligent.

You may call this entity whatever you like (theist of course called it God), what is important is its atributes as I mentioned.

~~soulcalm17~~ · July 25, 2024 at 10:42 pm

About “the God proposal” and materialism or naturalism.
It has long been the case among atheists that they contrast the naturalistic way of phenomena with the absence of God's activity. If a phenomenon can be explained scientifically, then there is no God's activity/no God. This is a proposition that is not based on the many phenomena that occur in the universe itself.
In the universe, we a will find a lot of dualism. The dualism I mean is that there is a a will and mind (which are invisible), but there is also material (which is visible) as an object where we see the effects of a will and mind that occurred.
Continue here:

I will give an example:
In the universe, there are humans. And in every human body there are many materials consisting of body organs (which come from cells or cell tissue). Everything becomes one integrated system.
But in every human being, there is also consciousness. This awareness can give rise to the a will and mind in every human being. When we are anxious, our brain releases stress hormones, such as adrenaline, and cortisol. As a result, our heart beats faster and pumps blood faster. But when we decide not to worry anymore, these hormones decrease, and our heart rate slows down and we become calm.
Pay attention to this fact. It turns out there is a phenomenon, where the attributes of a mind (i.e anxiety) can regulate the flow of matter from our body (i.e the brain releases the hormones adrenaline and cortisol). Likewise, the will (when deciding not to worry anymore) can reduce these hormones and return the heart rate to normal.
From this simple fact, we can conclude that mind and a will (which we cannot see) exist, and can influence the movement of matter. And the movement of matter that occurs from one of the decisions of the mind and a will is always the same (for example, when anxious, the brain always releases the hormones adrenaline and cortisol). So, it could also be called a law of nature.
We cannot simply propose a naturalistic explanation that the brain releases the hormones adrenaline and cortisol, and the heart suddenly beats faster. Only natural laws occurred. There is no mind or a will behind that reality. While in fact it is clear that in reality there are mind and a will.
This of course happens a lot in all living creatures.
However, atheists, when explaining about basic particles, do not want to admit the possibility that there is a a will and mind behind these basic particles. The weird thing is, according to them, these objects are not living creatures, so they do not have a will or mind, but somehow, they can move.
Likewise when they explain large-scale phenomena, such as stars and planets. They assumed that there was nothing behind that push the stars. They move themselves based on natural laws. And the low entropy that occurred is not the result of the entity behind it that doing it on purpose. But by chance, it gave rise to conditions suitable for life.
In fact, in the micro universe (in the human body when humans decide not to worry), low entropy comes from the mind which causes stress hormones to decrease and slow down the previously fast heart rate. So that all body metabolism runs normally again. So, mind (which are invisible) can create “low entropy”.
This is what differentiates theists from atheists. I can validly, based on existing empirical events in nature, say that there is a mind and a will behind the universe. I also have no problem saying that both normal natural events and abnormal natural events are definitely influenced by the mind and a will behind the phenomenon. Because a will and mind always have visible effects on matter. There are examples in the universe (i.e in human body) that mind and a will can influence matters. It’s not superstitious.
Meanwhile, atheists still insist on denying the existence of mind and a wills behind the universe. They also assume that there is no mind and a will in every part of the universe. So everything is considered to have its own properties and move itself. In my opinion, this is the same as them believing in magic, which of course doesn't make sense.

~~soulcalm17~~ · July 26, 2024 at 3:04 am

I want to add again that Quran is not human made, because:
The texts itself contains science facts that impossible people from that era to know.

Examples (All of these examples I quoted from “13 Scientific Facts from Holy Quran”, themuslimvibe.com)
Continue here

**The Grand Nudger** · (This post was last modified: July 26, 2024 at 4:29 am by The Grand Nudger.)

(July 25, 2024 at 10:35 pm)soulcalm17 Wrote: I conclude that Quran is not human made, because:
The writing style and composition is very distinctive and outperformed high ranked poem made by Arabs, that no poems or any literature in Arabic can equal it until present.

This is a matter of taste. I prefer any number of childrens nursery rhymes to anything in the quran. All you could be saying here is you think it's really..really great - but people do write really great stufff. Like...alot.... FWIW, as a claim...it shits on the entirety of arabic literature while it's at it. I'm not an expert, maybe it is all as bad as you claim.

Quote:The texts itself compose of prophecies that are true. Rationally, human can not do prophecies.
The texts itself contains science facts that impossible people from that era to know.

Good luck with quranic miracles by any name. This is magic book territory. Do you worship a god, do you have beliefs about right and wrong and how the world ought to be vis a vis the divine and taboo.... or do you worship a magic book and have novel ideas about printing? This where I'd place the line between superstition and religion.

If you were to discover that people did, in fact, write the quran...would you stop believing in gods or your god? Would you reject the religion of islam?

Sheldon · July 26, 2024 at 7:28 am

(July 25, 2024 at 10:35 pm)soulcalm17 Wrote: humans cannot possibly know the exact name of a person in the future,

That's not true, I am very confident someone called Richard will exist in the future. It's pretty easy, I can even claim their father will have the name Robert, and the odds are pretty good I have predicted something accurately.

Quote: it can be concluded that humans get it from outside themselves.

No it can't, not rationally anyway, you are a) using what appears to be an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy, and b) violating Occam's razor.

Quote:there was information about the future, then there must be someone who makes that information. If someone makes it, it means there is an entity. This entity can convey messages. Indicating that this entity is alive and intelligent.

...and human, we already know humans write books. Assuming your claims about how accurate the predictions are can be objectively verified (I am dubious), and further assuming that it came true exactly as described (again I am dubious), and then assuming the probability can be calculated as extremely unlikely, all you'd have is a mystery you couldn't explain, to suggest the lack of an explanation evidences anything is an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy.

Quote:You may call this entity whatever you like

Firstly, you have not demonstrated that any entity other than the humans who wrote those books, are even possible, secondly the notion one can call this imagined and unevidenced entity whatever one likes, is an entirely subjective opinion.

Quote:(theist of course called it God), what is important is its atributes as I mentioned.

I disagree, since you assigned those attributes arbitrarily, it is little more than begging the question fallacies. You need to:

1) Demonstrate sufficient objective evidence any deity or anything supernatural is even possible.
2) Demonstrate sufficient objective evidence that a deity exists.
3) Demonstrate sufficient objective evidence that it si the deity you imagine to be real.

Your argument here is fallacious and thus irrational. It is also of course used by adherents of other religions to make identically fallacious claims about other deities humans imagine to be real. It's poor reasoning, using weak arguments.

Paleophyte · July 26, 2024 at 9:24 pm

(July 25, 2024 at 10:35 pm)soulcalm17 Wrote: I conclude that Quran is not human made, because:
The writing style and composition is very distinctive and outperformed high ranked poem made by Arabs, that no poems or any literature in Arabic can equal it until present.

A frequently made but baseless claim. Any of a vast number of poems are superior.

Quote:The texts itself compose of prophecies that are true. Rationally, human can not do prophecies.

All scriptures contain prophecy. It's a simple matter of writing them after the event or using post hoc justification. Nothing special there.

Quote:The texts itself contains science facts that impossible people from that era to know.

Again, these are all post hoc justifications. The Quran doesn't contain any scientific information until you look back and assign vaguely correct looking passages meaning after the scientists made the actual discoveries.

Quote:Examples (All of these examples I quoted from “13 Scientific Facts from Holy Quran”)

“Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them” (Quran, Al Anbiya’ 21:30)
This is the big bang theory.

No, it's you trying to superimpose science on your scripture. There were neither Earh nor Heavens before, during, or after the Big Bang. If this we to be read as anything scientific it would more closely resemble the formation of Earth, which happened 9 billion years later.

Quote:“The Day when We will fold the heaven like the folding of a [written] sheet for the records. As We began the first creation, We will repeat it. [That is] a promise binding upon Us. Indeed, We will do it” (Quran, Al Anbiya’ 21:104).
This fits in with the theory of Big Crunch which talks about how the universe will be pulled back into the black holes and again form a tiny mass.

Analysis of the expansion rate of the universe shows that there will be no Big Crunch. I guess you just proved the Quran wrong. Throw out your prayer mat, your menorah is in the mail.

Quote:We created man from an extract of clay. Then We made him as a drop in a place of settlement, firmly fixed. Then We made the drop into an alaqah (leech, suspended thing, and blood clot), then We made the alaqah into a mudghah (chewed substance)…” (Quran, Al Mu’minun 23:12-14).
This is embryology.

Last I checked there was precious little involving clay or leeches in embryology. What dark age hole did you crawl out of? Oh, and people knew about embryos back then.

Quote:“And We made the sky a protected ceiling, but they, from its signs, are turning away” (Quran, Al Anbiya’ 21:32).
It is a scientific fact that the sky, with all of its gasses, protects the earth and life that is present on it from the harmful rays of the sun. If there was no protective layer, life on earth would cease to exist as the temperature on earth would be freezing at -270.556°C, the same as the temperature in space.

And that scripture doesn't say any of that. It's just you trying to attach scientific legitimacy to bastard scripture.

Quote:“We sent down Iron with its great inherent strength and its many benefits for humankind” (Quran, Al Hadid 57:25)
Iron is not natural to the earth. Scientists state that billions of years ago, the earth was struck by meteorites. It was within these meteorites that iron was present and due to explosion on earth, we now have iron available to us. The Quran, as stated above, has already enlightened us of this fact by stating “We sent down iron with its great inherent strength…”.

Your scientific illiteracy is staggering. Iron is the most common element on Earth (32.1%). I guess you just proved the Quran wrong again. Want to try Taoism instead?

I'm not going to bother with the rest. It's all the same.

~~soulcalm17~~ · July 30, 2024 at 4:22 am

Root of Monotheism in Early Cultures

As I promised, here I want to give evidence that monotheism is likely the first type of religion of the humankind.

According to Titcomb (1872), John Lubbock, in Origin of Civilization, assume underlying thinking about the emergence of religion are steps like this:

Atheismà Fetishism àTotemism àShamanism àAnthropomorphism or Idolatry àMonotheism.

These steps assume that human thinking evolves from the simplest level to the most complex level. This gradation assumes that if a culture is at one stage, it is impossible for the next stage to exist in that culture. For example, if a culture is still at the stage of shamanism, then there cannot be the concept of anthropomorphism or even monotheism.

But the reality strangely does not match that assumption. According to ethnographers who have researched human cultures at the end of the 19th century, it was found that in almost every culture studied, there was always the concept of a supreme being, who was above the sky, who created/managed everything. This concept even exists in remote isolated societies.

I'll take some samples to show you what the evidence are. Mircea Eliade, in his book Patterns in Comparative Religion, shows that this happens on various continents. They have the concept of one god, but they no longer worship it. This concept is called Deus Otiosus or "Idle God". A god that is truly supreme but also distant from human affairs.

First, cultures in Africa, which are believed to be the place where homo sapiens first existed (out of Africa). According to Mircea Eliade, All over Africa traces are found of a great sky god who has almost disappeared or is on the course of disappearing. For example, Bantu Tribe.

Bantu believes The Supreme God called Nzambi. Nzambi is all powerful, benevolent, just. But for that very reason, they don't adore him. They have no material representation of him as they have of other gods and spirits. They said about Nzambi: Nzambi is on high, man below. God is god. Man is man. Each is at home, each in his own house. This emerged The High God Paradox: A supreme God in heaven is recognized yet he is not worshipped.

Second, culture in Australia, which has existed since 50,000 years ago. Mircea Eliade said “An analysis of the various stages of Australian religion shows clearly that the sky divinity held the central place in most primitive religious life. Originally, Mungangana used to live on earth among men, only later did he withdraw to heaven… All over Australia one can recognize to some extent the myth of the gradual withdrawal of divine beings. So the aborigines of southeastern Australia, which were the most isolated and reflected the oldest and most archaic cultures, believed in a supreme being whom they gave various names. Typically they called him: Mingangana, Darmulum, Baiame, Bunjul.

Darmulum is an esoteric name for god only revealed to initiates of the tribe young men going through initiation. The women and children refer to the supreme god as Papang (father) or Biambam (lord). The All-Father of these Aborigines was the creator of the universe and of man. He was recognized as benevolent, he taught humans mysteries instituted civil laws, rewards the upright and defends morality and he dwells far up in the sky near the milky way.

Eliade says: “But nowhere does the belief in such a supreme being dominate religious life. The characteristic element in Australian religion is not belief in a heavenly being, a supreme creator, but in totemism. He is pushed to the periphery of religious life.. where he is almost ignored. Other sacred forces, closer to man, more accessible are worshipped.

Third, culture on Andaman Island. This island is inhabited by one of the most primitive tribes on the Asian continent. Anthropologist found almost forgotten belief in a supreme divinity among the aboriginal peoples of Andaman archipelago. The supreme being was called Puluga. He dwells in the sky. Puluga created the world and the first man, namely Tomo. As humanity grew and dispersed it grew more forgetful of its creator. So one day Puluga got angry and he sent a flood which covered the whole earth and destroyed mankind. Only four people escaped. Puluga reminded them once and for all his commandments and then he withdrew into heaven. Men have not seen him since. The Andaman islanders have no worship of this god. They have no prayer, they offer no sacrifice, they don't even give him thanksgiving. They simply express fear towards him and therefore they respect his commandments.

Fourth, culture in South America, namely Tierra del Fuego, where in the late 19th century it's still housed in isolated tribes of humans that live according to a primitive life style: The Selk'nam Peoples. The Selk'nam nomadic hunters of Tierra del Fuego had a supreme being named Temaukel. But from holy fear they never spoke his name. He is so on Haksam or dweller in the sky. He is eternal, omniscience, omnipotent, the indirect creator of the world before withwing beyond the stars, he created the mythical ancestors who completed creation of the world on his behalf. This god although supreme, is set apart from men. He has no images, no priests. He is the author of the moral law and master of all destinies but the people only pray to him in cases of illness.

From those samples of the most primitive cultures in the world, we could conclude that Belief in supreme sky being is generally to be found among the most archaic of primitive societies from Africa, Australia, Asia, to the South American. This belief is so consistent and dispersed that it cannot be attributed to coincidence and must reflect a common belief of early humanity.

Yet, nowhere in primitive religion do we find these supreme beings of the sky playing a leading role in religious life. Instead the supreme beings of the sky have been superseded by other religious conceptions.

So we find ouselves in a strange position, these peoples were monotheistic in belief but polytheistic in practice. Despite believing a supreme god that created all things and was all good. They did not worship him nor pray to him, instead they worshiped lesser divinities that were thought to be more accessible to man and more interested in his affairs.

Since this supreme being has almost no functional purpose in religious life, it must be an artifact, a survival of a more archaic belief where the supreme being has a more intense relationship with humanity and was the central figure of our religious life.

Based on the evidence in many remote and primitive cultures, it is correct to say that the belief in a high god represents one of the most archaic beliefs of humanity, one that can very well extend to a time before homo sapiens sapiens even left Africa.

At the quite great civilizations, the same case likely to be happened. Here I quoted article from Monotheism Preceded Polytheism, The Watchtower Announcing Jehovah’s Kingdom—1957:

(Start of quote):

“More important than the present beliefs of primitive peoples is evidence as to the ancient beliefs of the earliest known races. For such evidence we turn to archaeology. It is found that the farther back the history of polytheistic races is penetrated the fewer gods they have and the nearer to monotheism they become. Concerning India and Egypt A. Rendle Short says:

“The literature of India covers a period from about 2000 B.C. to modern times, and as it is traced backwards, by common consent, the stream becomes purer and tends towards monotheism the nearer we get to its source. A. A. MacDonell speaks of Rig-Vedic literature having a ‘monotheistic tinge.’ The Vedic gods, reckoned at 33, in later ages came to be counted popularly as 330,000,000. The whole process was one of degeneration from an early age downwards. . . .

“In Egypt, also, there is evidence that monotheism is earlier than polytheism. To this a number of scholars bear testimony: Brugsch, Blum-Ernst, Renouf. Renouf writes: ‘It is incontestably true that the sublimer portions of the Egyptian religion are not the comparatively late result of a process of elimination of the grosser. The sublimer portions are demonstrably ancient, and the last stage of Egyptian religion was by far the most corrupt.’”8

Historian Dr. Albert Hyma wrote: “According to many present authorities, the Sumerians were originally monotheistic in their belief, for the most ancient written records state clearly that they believed in only one God. This is a very important fact to note, because until very recently (1937) a large number of historians believed that mankind originally was polytheistic and that gradually as human beings became civilized, they formed a higher conception of the deity.” Also, “As stated previously, the Sumerians originally believed in only one God, but after 3500 B.C. [Hyma’s dating] they developed various forms of polytheism. They began to worship a large number of gods, from among whom they transmitted to the later Babylonians their chief god Marduk.”9

Stephen Langdon, professor of Assyriology at Oxford, wrote an article on “Monotheism as the Predecessor of Polytheism in Sumerian Religion.”10 The Sumerians are claimed to be the oldest people known to archaeology and their concepts can be read in their ancient writings. Some of the sites of their prehistoric cities have been excavated down to virgin soil. “In doing this with three hundred workmen at Kish,” says Langdon, “over a period of twelve years, I came to the conclusion that the vast Sumerian polytheistic system was preceded by monotheism. This conclusion was also made more clear to me by the excavations of the Germans at Erech and a city Shuruppak, between Nippur and Erech.”

Professor Langdon makes these statements in his article: “We know from inscriptions of about 3000 B.C. that the Sumerian pantheon already contained about 750 deities. . . . It is, however, certain that when we press back towards the beginning of religion on written documents the pantheon of 3000 B.C. dwindles down to four and then only two deities.” “The pantheon in full bloom contained more than 5000 deities great and small. The early history of this pantheon can be traced back through the inscriptions to the most primitive pictographs. A large body of early texts from about 3300 B.C. shows a pantheon of only 500 gods. In all theological treatises of the pantheon right back to 3300 [Langdon’s dating] the Babylonians and Sumerians always place the Sky-God at the beginning.” “I should add at once that in these primitive records there is no trace of magic or demons. Everything points to a primitive personal god with the name An, Heaven, Sky.” “It seems to be admitted that the nature myth gods of India, Greece and Italy and all Indo-Germanic religions started with a Sky-God.” (End of quote)

In almost all location of the world, there is always a language to point one God. Eventough some of them might be monolatry or henotheism. What should empashized in here is humankind never had many gods without Supreme God above them. And it could be inferred that the concept One Supreme Being God is preceded all the gods below Him, thus the earliest form should be monotheism.

These list I got from The book Muhammad in World Scriptures by Maulana Abdul Haque, 1954 (alphabetically):

1. The Abipones, a savage tribe of South America. Their chief deity is Aharaigichi or Keebet. “He gave us valour and Spaniars riches”.

2. The Abor, Abor Miri, a people of the northern frontier of Assam, India. They acknowledge and adore one supreme being, Jam, as the father o all, who will judge a man.

3. The Aborigines of South Australia have Atnatu as their God. It means one without anus, or without flow (meaning that he is not eating as creatures did). These Aborigines also declare that Atnatu is prior to Beginning. He appeared in the sky in a far remote past. He made Himself and gave Himself His name. he is very great, whose law tribes are obeying. He established the rule that tribes at fising ground should keep peace.His name also means “The Great”

4. Some Aborigines of South Australia say that they believe in Baiami. It means maker and father of all.

5. The Abyssinians, A Hamite race, adore Waq, pronounced Waquo. Originally, it means Heaven (or one who is in heaven). They say there is only one God who is omnipresent, or everywhere.

6. The Aegeans, people of the coast isles of the Aengean Sea, say that they believe in Rhea, which means the spirit of Nature.

7. The African Negroes. They say that they have been taught His name God. In their language godin is goddess and godji is a little tin god.

8. The Agaos, high Cushite of East Africa, say their chief god is Deban or Jar. It means sky or heaven.

9. The Ahoms, who belong to the Thai family, extending from the gulf of Siam to Assam, say that they believe in Phu-Ra-Ta ra. It means God, the Creator.

10. The Akra (an African tribe). They say that they believe in Jongama, meaning the highest God.

11. The Akwapin (Africans) believe in Jank Kupong. It denotes God.

12. The Ainus is an historic race sometimes inhabiting Siberia to Japan. Their God is Kamui. They were originally monotheists. Kamui means heaven and above. It has no plural number.

13. The Aiyanar of South India worship Hari Hara or Vishnushiva, A Darvidian god recognised by The Aryans.

14. The Alakh Namis of Northern India worship Alakh Nam, or the unseeable God.

15. The Albanians of The Balkan peninsula call their God Hyjni, which means celestial God.

16. The Aleuts (of Aleutian Islands, Alaska) worship Kuga. It means the spirit who has power to create.

17. The Algoquins, a well-known Algic race of North America, say that they believe in Kuloskap or Kuloskabe. It means the god, liar and deceiver, not because he deceives or injures man but because he leads his enemies astray. He is creator and friend of man, named animals and discovered that man was the lord of all.

18. The Andamans, though naked pigmy savages and totally uncivilised, say that Puluga, their chief deity, is the cause of all things, and sins are displeasing to Him. He taught His teachings to Tomo, the first teacher.

19. The Annamese of Burma call their God Doc-Cuoc, i.e one footed God. They praise his merits thus:”The one-footed spirit has only one eye and only one foot, but he is swift as lightening and sees all that happens in the world.

20. The Arabs call their highest god as Allah. He comprises all the attributes of perfection.

21. The Armenian chief deity is Aramazd. He is the father of the gods, the maker of the heavens and the earth.

22. The Assyrians (or Assyrio-Babylonian religion) adore Baal or Bel. It was considered the chief deity. It means owner or posessor. It was also worshipped by Israelites. Says the Bible: “As their father have forgotten my name for Baal”

23. The Babylonians serve the God Anu, i.e. the God of heaven. It is the Sumerian God.

24. The Bulgarians worship Bora. It means the chief object of worship.

25. The Bantu, an African Tribe, name their God Ambe or Nyambe. It means God.

26. The Basques, an ancient people of Spain, worshipped Goiko, Jaun-Goiko. Jaun means lord and goiko means height. So it’s master of the height.

27. The Buddhist of Burma worship Nat and they believe him to be a supernatural being.

28. The Budhhist of Nepal serve Adi Buddha. They are unitarian and theistic people. Adi Buddha menas Buddha from the beginning. They believe that He is exist by Himself and is called Svayambhu or Svayambhu Lok Nath, or self-existing protector of the world.

29. Some sects of the Buddhists worship Avlochit Eshvra. The Tibetans take it to mean the Lord Who looks both at the Buddha and at the creatures with compassion.

30. The Buraits, a branch of Eastern Mongols, called their God Tenqri (Tenga means heaven, one who lives in heaven).

31. Among the Burus, the highest God is called Opp-qeba-snulat, the lord creator of man. His messenger in very old time was Nabiata (The messengers of God who descend to earth are prevalent among all Indonesians.

32. The Canaanites say their God is El. In Hebrew, it means power.

33. The Caribs South America worship Tamu. It means grandfather or old deity of the sky.

34. The Chaldeans God is Illa or Ila, a very old Semitic name of God. It Means the highest.

35. The Chibchas, of Peru (South America), name their God Chimizapagua. It means the supreme creator. Their prophet’s name is Bachia, who taught all they know

36. The Chinese God is Shang-Te. They say about their God: It is not lawful to use the name Shang-Te lightly; therefore, we name Him by His residence, i.e heaven.

37. The Confucians (China), tough considered polytheists, believe Shen to be the chief God, living in heaven. He rules and controls all spectres and their actions; no spirit can harm men without authority from Him or His silent consent.

38. The Coptics of Africa, call their God Notte, used as singular and plural and feminine and masculine.

39. In the Cornish language of the Celts, inhabitants of Northern and Western Europe, God is called Dew, Deu, Dhew, or Thew.

40. The Cretans, the people of Crete in Mediterranean Sea, invoke Theos (heaven) as in Greek.

41. The Czeck, a language of Bohemia and Moravia. In this language the name of god is Buh.

42. In the Danish, the language of the Danes of Denmark, God is pronounced Gud.

43. The Denes, North Mexican tribes, are a most important aboriginal group. Their chief God is Yuttoere Soetit Sa. It means He who sits on the zenith. He is creator as well as ruler of the universe.

44. The Dinca (one of the tribe in Africa), they are deeply religious people and worship a high God whose name is Dengdit, literally meaning great rain, who is above or in the above. He sends rain. He created the world.

45. The chief deity of the Dutch of Holland is God, Godheid.

46. The Ediyans of Fzernando Po call their supreme being Rupi.

47. The ancient Eyptians called their God Nether, pronouced Neter. It denotes God or god. “You may say: Every moment He is in a state of Glory.

48. The Egyptian Hieroglyphic name of God is Khem (He whose name is unknown). The Pharaoh of Egypt was called Khem because his name was ineffable. Some say it means “the life-force of his subject”.

49. The Eiki (an aboriginal tribe) named their god Tongaloa; it means lord.

50. The Eskimos (it means eaters of raw flesh). The name of God in their language is Torna-garsuk. Torna means spirit and garsuk means great. The great spirit.

51. The Estonians. Their god is Jumal (lord)

52. The Fijians of Rakiraki say God’s name is Ndengei, pronounced Dengi. The terms means the creator of mankind. They say Ndengei is the true God.

53. The Finns (of Finland) call their God Jumala. Jumalainen denotes heavenly beauty.

54. In Gallic (the language of Scotland, Ireland, and France), the name of God is Dia.

55. The German name of God is Gott.

56. The Gold Coast (East Africa Negro tribes), In their language the name of God is Bobowissi. They think He appointed all local gods, has control over all elements and all things.

57. The Quiche Indians of Guatemala have a book named Popol Vuh. It means the book of bark (written on the bark of a tree). The creation of the world is narrated in it. God’s name is Hurakan. It means the one-legged god. He is the creator of all.

58. The Hausa (Northern Nigeria, Africa) say that Allah is the name of our God.

59. The Hawaiians serve Akua. It means chief god.

60. In Hebrew, Israelites call their God Yehovah or Yahweh.

61. The Hindus. The highest name according to the scriptures is Om. Om means protector or guardian.

62. The Icelanders say Godd.

63. The Incas of Peru call God Viracocha. It menas dweller in space. They say He is the supreme creator.

64. The Indonesian. Moluccas (tribes in Indonesia), believe in their God Upu-lero, the creator and chief god.

65. The Irish name for God is Dia. It means heaven or one who lives in heaven.

66. The Italian name for God is Dio (heaven)

67. The Japanese call God Kami. It means above, or heaven.

68. The Javanese (Indonesia). Some of them believe in their God Dangyang. It means supernatural power.

69. Langi Tongan, is a group of islands in the Western Pacific, lying to the north of New Zealand. Two groups of people inhabiting these islands. One group believes in Tonga-Loa. It means elder. The other group worships Ma ui, pronounced Mowy. It denotes father.

70. The Latin refers to the people and language of Latium. In this language the name of God is Deus. It means heaven.

71. The Lingayat, the people of South India. They believe in one god called Shiva, a creative and destructiive force.

72. The Lithunians, the people of Lithunia, a Teutonic race. The name of their god is Dievas.

73. People in Madagascar adore Zanahary. It means the creator of all things. They believe in one God.

74. In the Malay language, God is called Tuhan. It means master or lord.

75. The Mandaeans, a Parsi sect in Western Persia and Sourthern Babylonia. Their God is Alaha.

76. The Masais, of east Africa. They believe in a far-reaching divine power emanating from the sky, high above the earth. His name is En-Ai.

77. The Melanesians believe that their life and actions are carried on in the presence and influence of Mana, a power superior to that of living men.

78. The Mikers (a Tibeto-Burman race of Assam), name their God Arnan, divine being, mighty and terrible.

79. The Mongols name their God Khormosda.

80. The Mordvins (a Finno-Ugrain race) have two tribes, Erza and the Moksha. In The Erza the deity of the sky is called Vere-Pas, the god who is above.

81. The Nagas of Bundhelkhand (India) have a nameless god.

82. The Natchez (an American Indian tribe) have Coyocopchill, pronounced Koyokoshill. It means the great spirit.

83. The Norwegians call Gud.

84. The Nubas in Africa. Their high God is called Oliose. Some of their tribes believe in Kalo who created all things and in whose house (the sky) are the sun and the moon.

85. The Nyanjas of Nayasaland. Tehir God is Mulungu which means supreme being and is the only designation in use.

86. The Odjis, or Ahantees, antives of Ashanti, a vigorous and warlike race of Negroes, name their supreme deity by Sky, but they say : “He created all things and is giver of all good things. He is omnipresent and omniscient knowing even the thoughts of men.

87. An old German nation called their God Deit; deiyor is heaven.

88. Ossetic, a religion prevailing half-way along the main range of Caucasus. Their God’s name is Khutsau, the super divinity, God of Gods. He is regarded too high.

89. The Ostyaks, people of Siberia, name their God Ess. They say: “No one ever saw Him, for he lives above the sky.”

90. The Persian name of God is Khuda (means self-existent). It also means owner.

91. The Peruvians call their God Panchyachachak, the sun-god, or God is light (some say ruling and directing god).

92. The Phoenicians (an ancient nation of Babylonia). Their God was Allon, meaning worthy of worship.

93. The Poles. In the polish language God’s name is Bog. It means rich and wealthy or opulent.

94. The Polynesians. Many tribes there. The common name of God is Atua, meaning god or master. The other name is Etua, and Otua.

95. The Portugese say the name of God is Deus, which means heaven

96. The Rumanians serve God by the name of Dumezeu (heaven)

97. The Russian name for God is Boc. It means rich or opulent.

98. The Saminols (people of southern portion of the State of Florida, USA). They believe in a supreme being who lives above the clouds. He is the giver and taker of life. His name is E Shock-e-tom-e-see.

99. The Samoyed, a tribe of Russia (samoyed = self-eaters, or alone, in Russian). The highest God worshipped by them is called Numkim-poi. It means one who watches man from above.

100. The Santals of India (Bhagalpur Division) worship Thakur (lord) and regard him as a good god.

101. The Sacrabs of ancient Egypt. Their God was Khepera or Kheperi. It means self-begetting.

102. The Scythians (a nomad tribe of the north of Black Sea) rever Tabiti. They raised no statues of him.

103. The Semites (an early Arabian race). Their God is Ashtoreth or Ishtar. They believed that he gave date-palms, children, increase of camels, goats, and sheep.

104. The Shilluk, on the west bank of the Nile (Egypt). Their high god was Juok. He is fromless and invisible and like air (everywhere).

105. Shintoism is the royal religion of Japan. Teen Kami is the highest heavenly deity.

106. The Siberians (Russia) name God as Kutqi or Kutg (supreme god).

107. The Siau (Indonesia). Their highest god is Duata.

108. The Siouans (American Indian). They hold the idea of a supernatural power Wakonda or Wakan-Tanka. They address Him as the power that moves.

109. The Slavic language (used in Russians, Servians, and Bulgarians). The name of God in this language is Bog. It means rich.

110. Somaliland (Africa). People call God Abba, father or protector.

111. The Spanish name of God is Dios. It means heaven.

112. The Sumerian name of God is Illu, whom they serve.

113. The Swahilis (Africa). In their language the name of God is Mangu-Mola. Mungu is used to describe anything unaccountable or unexpected.

114. The Sweddish language, the name of God is Gud.

115. The Syrians or Armenians. Their God is Hadad. In Hebrew it means powerful and might. He was venerated as the greatest and the highest of gods. It also signifies the One.

116. A tribe of Taiti, Bushmen, South Africa, believe in Thora.

117. The Tibetan name for God is Spayanrasgzigs. It means god who looks on everyside, or the lord who looks both at the Buddha and at the creation with compassion.

118. The Todas of Nilgiri hills, India, believe in one who created them and their buffaloes.

119. The Tongans say the name of god is Alo-Alo.

120. The Tungus of Eastern China. Their chief god is Havak (living in the sun).

121. The Turks, before their conversion to Isam, believed in the highest god Yulgen. It means sky or one who lives in the seventh sky.

122. Another Turkish tribe invoke their god Tanri. It means glorious god.

123. The Tushes of Caucasus. Their god’s name is Khati. He is a celestial god.

124. The people of Uganda (africa) call God Kokasa. It means benign.

125. The Welsh people call god Duw.

126. The Yeniseians, Indians of the plains of North America, believe in Wakonda. And they say that all experiences of life are directed by Wakonda.

127. The Yerubas (tribe in between Dahomy and the lower Niger of Africa), eventough mostly pagan, yet they believe in their god Oloen, the lord of heaven.

128. The Yiddish language (used by Germans Jews). The name for God is Naet.

129. The Zoroastrians, natives of Iran. The highest name of God is Ahura Mazda. It means the light.

130. The Zulu, natives of Natal (Africa), one of a great Bantu tribes. In their language, the name of God is Unkullukulu. It means an old, old one.

131. There are some tribes who believer in a nameless god, like Daramulum, Pawee, Ti-ra-wa, Huchol, Talevalu, Bahnar, Bokglaih, Guina Wacinaci. All these names mean our father, father-spirit, grandfather.

References:

Archaic Monotheism: The High-God of Early Humanity - History of Religious Ideas, by neophyte one on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jdx1PHMLZc

Eliade, Mircea. Patterns in Comparative Religion, 1958.

Maulana Abdul Haque, Muhammad in World Scriptures. 1954.

Titcomb, J. H., Prehistoric Monotheism. Journal of the Transactions of
The Victoria Institute (Journal of 1872-73 -- pages 141 to 162) in https://creationism.org/victoria/Victori..._pg141.htm

Monotheism Preceded Polytheism, The Watchtower Announcing Jehovah’s Kingdom—1957,

in https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1957043

Sheldon · July 30, 2024 at 4:40 am

(July 30, 2024 at 4:22 am)soulcalm17 Wrote:
Root of Monotheism in Early Cultures

As I promised, here I want to give evidence that monotheism is likely the first type of religion of the humankind.

The point is entirely moot to me, no offence, but a far more important question is can you demonstrate any objective evidence a deity exists, or that a deity is even possible?

While you're mulling that over, maybe a response to some of the critical responses to your previous claims might be apropos?

**Silver** · July 30, 2024 at 4:57 am

If there was any actual evidence of god's existence, we wouldn't be atheists.

~~soulcalm17~~ · July 30, 2024 at 5:08 am

(July 26, 2024 at 7:28 am)Sheldon Wrote:
(July 25, 2024 at 10:35 pm)soulcalm17 Wrote: humans cannot possibly know the exact name of a person in the future,

That's not true, I am very confident someone called Richard will exist in the future. It's pretty easy, I can even claim their father will have the name Robert, and the odds are pretty good I have predicted something accurately.

Quote: it can be concluded that humans get it from outside themselves.
No it can't, not rationally anyway, you are a) using what appears to be an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy, and b) violating Occam's razor.

Quote:there was information about the future, then there must be someone who makes that information. If someone makes it, it means there is an entity. This entity can convey messages. Indicating that this entity is alive and intelligent.

...and human, we already know humans write books. Assuming your claims about how accurate the predictions are can be objectively verified (I am dubious), and further assuming that it came true exactly as described (again I am dubious), and then assuming the probability can be calculated as extremely unlikely, all you'd have is a mystery you couldn't explain, to suggest the lack of an explanation evidences anything is an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy.

Quote:You may call this entity whatever you like
Firstly, you have not demonstrated that any entity other than the humans who wrote those books, are even possible, secondly the notion one can call this imagined and unevidenced entity whatever one likes, is an entirely subjective opinion.

Quote:(theist of course called it God), what is important is its atributes as I mentioned.
I disagree, since you assigned those attributes arbitrarily, it is little more than begging the question fallacies. You need to:

1) Demonstrate sufficient objective evidence any deity or anything supernatural is even possible.
2) Demonstrate sufficient objective evidence that a deity exists.
3) Demonstrate sufficient objective evidence that it si the deity you imagine to be real.

Your argument here is fallacious and thus irrational. It is also of course used by adherents of other religions to make identically fallacious claims about other deities humans imagine to be real. It's poor reasoning, using weak arguments.

Arguments about the cause of something do not have to bring about that thing physically.
For example:
1. When I find a book, I conclude that the book must have been designed by a human. I do not need to find the specific human who wrote the book. But my conclusion is true.
2. You must have come from your grandfather's grandfather's grandfather's grandfather's grandfather. I do not need to physically meet your grandfather's grandfather's grandfather's grandfather. But my conclusion is true.
3. The universe began with the big bang. I also do not need to see with my eyes at this moment how the big bang happened. But my conclusion is true based on the traces of the universe.

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