(April 18, 2025 at 1:43 pm)Angrboda Wrote: I'd have to disagree about Trump.  One of the things that make his rallies so successful is that he can be very funny.  His humor may not appeal to some, but that's due to ideological differences.

I don't think the author was claiming that no one ever found Trump funny, only that as far as the author was concerned he'd never said anything remotely witty, or funny. I have to confess, I've never watched, nor would I be likely to watch, a trump rally, at east not at length, frankly I'd rather drink my own piss. 

Though I am not saying I agree exactly with everything the author wrote, the general tone of criticisms resonate I must say. To me, Trump is a bully, and I despise that. And while he seems to have passion, he seems to lack compassion. Is he even capable of empathy? When I have seen him try this, it just seems creepy to me.

(April 18, 2025 at 1:23 pm)Sheldon Wrote:

(April 18, 2025 at 7:25 am)Alan V Wrote: I literally don't know anyone IRL who talks the way Trump does, which I take to mean "lies all the time."  Facts are still facts, no matter how many times someone denies them.  Honesty must include the attempt to be accurate.  Trump doesn't even try, and apparently never admits he is wrong or takes corrections.

Saw this a while back, and I think the author nailed it for me.

"Why some British people do not like Donald Trump?” 

Nate White:

"A few things spring to mind. Trump lacks certain qualities which the British traditionally esteem. For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honour and no grace – all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor Mr. Obama was generously blessed. So for us, the stark contrast does rather throw Trump’s limitations into embarrassingly sharp relief.

Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing – not once, ever. I don’t say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility – for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman. But with Trump, it’s a fact. He doesn’t even seem to understand what a joke is – his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty.

Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers. And scarily, he doesn’t just talk in crude, witless insults – he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness.

There is never any under-layer of irony, complexity, nuance or depth. It’s all surface. Some Americans might see this as refreshingly upfront. Well, we don’t. We see it as having no inner world, no soul. And in Britain we traditionally side with David, not Goliath. All our heroes are plucky underdogs: Robin Hood, Dick Whittington, Oliver Twist. Trump is neither plucky, nor an underdog. He is the exact opposite of that. He’s not even a spoiled rich-boy, or a greedy fat-cat. He’s more a fat white slug. A Jabba the Hutt of privilege.

And worse, he is that most unforgivable of all things to the British: a bully. That is, except when he is among bullies; then he suddenly transforms into a snivelling sidekick instead. There are unspoken rules to this stuff – the Queensberry rules of basic decency – and he breaks them all. He punches downwards – which a gentleman should, would, could never do – and every blow he aims is below the belt. He particularly likes to kick the vulnerable or voiceless – and he kicks them when they are down.

So the fact that a significant minority – perhaps a third – of Americans look at what he does, listen to what he says, and then think ‘Yeah, he seems like my kind of guy’ is a matter of some confusion and no little distress to British people, given that:

• Americans are supposed to be nicer than us, and mostly are.
• You don’t need a particularly keen eye for detail to spot a few flaws in the man.

This last point is what especially confuses and dismays British people, and many other people too; his faults seem pretty bloody hard to miss. After all, it’s impossible to read a single tweet, or hear him speak a sentence or two, without staring deep into the abyss. He turns being artless into an art form; he is a Picasso of pettiness; a Shakespeare of shit. His faults are fractal: even his flaws have flaws, and so on ad infinitum. God knows there have always been stupid people in the world, and plenty of nasty people too. But rarely has stupidity been so nasty, or nastiness so stupid. He makes Nixon look trustworthy and George W look smart. In fact, if Frankenstein decided to make a monster assembled entirely from human flaws – he would make a Trump."

Spot on.

(April 18, 2025 at 7:40 am)Belacqua Wrote: What I meant was that if he doesn't like a reporter he just says "You're fake news." In his debate with Hillary, he basically won when he made a snarky zinger as a comeback. That's what people like. 

It says a lot about many Americans that they view this lowbrow approach as "real".

(April 19, 2025 at 2:39 am)Deesse23 Wrote:

(April 18, 2025 at 10:09 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: It's weird how in a thread about human nature you've managed to steer this into a Trump-vs-Obama thing.

Well, no, it's not weird. You're just trumpeting whataboutism without acknowledging it.

He just admitted that he thinks all politicians are liars/criminals. He is a victim of the 21st century of bullshit and propaganda.

The smart ones just figured that your can't sell your lie /crime straight away, if it's too absurd. No you first have to convince the gullible that ALL people/politicians are liars. THEN you sell your lie.

It's a variant of: ...drag then down to your level and beat them with experience.

.. And Bel fell for that script. Line, hook and sinker

To be fair majority of politicians are liars (at least in Poland). This is why such strategy finds so easy purchase among people. Far right greatest strength is in deplorable state of mainstream politics.

(April 18, 2025 at 10:51 am)Angrboda Wrote: From my personal experience, atheists like to think themselves more honest and straightforward than other people.

Whether they are is an open question that is not readily resolved by the rather partial accounting that we get online.

Remember Richard Dawkins? He used to be popular with atheists on line. 

He has come out as a transphobe and a fan of Elon Musk. So there's at least one atheist in the world who is not on our team.

In general I just think it's a bad idea to emphasize the us vs. them mentality. In-group vs. out-group, that kind of thing. It leads to overly-easy judgments, and partisanship, like "my team is better than their team, and they would all be better if they were more like me." That's not the way to get peace love and understanding. 

It may well be human nature to divide things up that way, but it's something we can guard against in our thinking. Each individual and each issue has to be taken on its individual merits.