Quote:How can the universe be so cruel and yet so awesome at times too?

In today's usage,where adolescents use use "awesome" instead of "I like", I'm not able to say the universe is "awesome". However, I DO find the universe "awesome" as in " awe inspiring" as well as stunningly beautiful (the teeny bit I can see) and mind boggling in scope.

Cruelty is moral concept,the universe is not cruel,or evil,nor good nor kind,it just is.

OF course I'm afraid of dying,all animals are,it's what triggers our fight/flight reflex, and helps us stay alive.Dying is an experience for many,but from what I can see is hardly an adventure. Unless you consider dying by inches over a long period and/or from something disgusting and painful an adventure. Ive seen both happen to people I loved. "Adventure" is not a word I'd use.

As far as I and anyone else can tell,death is not an adventure.That may be because DEATH ISN'T AN EXPERIENCE. At least I don't believe so.That's due to no one in recorded history having so far proved there is an after life,of any kind.Of course I may be wrong. Do hope I'm wrong? Well no,not if God is the inconsistent, petty,petulant,cruel ,sadistic and vindictive God of the Abrahamic faiths.

It occurred to me a long time ago " I don't fear the aeons I did not exist, why should I fear not existing again?

This is written on a tomb in Pompeii : "I was not.I was. I Am not. I don't care"

Hey all,

The world may seem cruel to our human standards because our human standards are flawed. We take things very personally. I think that the system needs childhood cancer, or that it cannot refrain from or disallow that outcome. It does not meant he designer was evil, just that we cannot comprehend the importance of the rules that life must follow. It seems cruel to us because we are stupid and petty, but it is all necessary or unavoidable at best.

Quote: Cruelty is moral concept,the universe is not cruel,or evil,nor good nor kind,it just is

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Padraic, I agree. That is a good way of putting it too, less words than my way.

Quote:OF course I'm afraid of dying,all animals are,it's what triggers our fight/flight reflex, and helps us stay alive.Dying is an experience for many,but from what I can see is hardly an adventure.
As far as I and anyone else can tell,death is not an adventure.That may be because DEATH ISN'T AN EXPERIENCE. At least I don't believe so.That's due to no one in recorded history having so far proved there is an after life,of any kind.Of course I may be wrong. Do hope I'm wrong? Well no,not if God is the inconsistent, petty,petulant,cruel ,sadistic and vindictive God of the Abrahamic faiths.

There are a lot if very different qualifiers there. 'Of course I', Dying is an experience', 'from what I can see', 'As far as an anyone else can tell', Death isn't an experience'... I don't think the real god is the one from the Abrahamic faiths. Let me assure you, I think we will all be very surprised when we die.

Also @Kyu. I will give you a reason for not fearing death. Because it is inevitable. You should very much embrace or at least come to terms with not existing. Otherwise it may impinge on your quality of existence. Unless you find a way to live forever, which would be tantamount to hell, you're gonna go away friend. So far everyone in human and animal existence has had to die. To fear something that is completely unavoidable is a absolute waste of time.

Oh yeah, and Purple.

Quote:When we have cured diseases we've have made this a better place, for us

That is also an unhealthy state-of-mind, I fear. I don't think we able to, as you put it 'cure diseases'. All of them!?! I think we have more now than ever before, so we are going in the wrong direction. This cannot be a better place for us by that silly, unreal action. We need to cure the human disease of lack-of-compassion, of de-humanizing each other, hurting each other out of fear and supposed competition. That is a much better and attainable goal. Curing all the diseases is so flawed a thought, and it shows how you are looking at the world through human eyes (for which I am sure you can be forgiven).

Quote:Let me assure you, I think we will all be very surprised when we die.

How kind. And I should be reassured by a rather nice but flaky young woman on an internet forum exactly why?

Hey,

That is all you want to respond to? I wrote paragraphs, and you are gonna quote my statement alluding that we do not know what happens when we die. It was kind of at Kyu's thing about 'no one has proven afterlife'. There was a lot more of substance than that one sentence, or the fact I chose the cliche 'let me assure you.'

I am neither quite young anymore, nor in fact a woman at all. I am rather nice, and a little flaky, sure. But I never made my gender clear until this point. I am a man, but a very strange one. That makes it gross when Kyu was being forward with me in the very beginning, doesn't it?

Do you think we will not be surprised when we die Padraic? You and I likely think opposing things will happen, so at the very least one of us will be surprised, no? So to be safe, I assume we both will.

You ever heard of an island off of county Mayo called Inishkee? That is were generations of my family came from. Quite near Galway, may be closer to Sligo. I am also ethnically Irish, but politically more than one other stripe. You were kind enough to share with me you family past when I complimented your name, so I am returning the favor, now that it is a completely different conversation...?

Thanks for listening,
-Pip

(July 9, 2009 at 7:17 am)Pippy Wrote: Do you think we will not be surprised when we die Padraic? You and I likely think opposing things will happen, so at the very least one of us will be surprised, no?

No, at the very least, neither one of you will be surprised since you both will be dead.

Ha ha. Very true. You won't be surprised either way pippy

Padriac Wrote:This is written on a tomb in Pompeii : "I was not.I was. I Am not. I don't care"

I think that's a really cool epitaph!! A great way of putting the matter in general I think! Very simple and direct. It's cool. I like it!!

EvF

(July 8, 2009 at 9:25 pm)Pippy Wrote: Oh yeah, and Purple.

Quote:When we have cured diseases we've have made this a better place, for us

That is also an unhealthy state-of-mind, I fear. I don't think we able to, as you put it 'cure diseases'. All of them!?! I think we have more now than ever before, so we are going in the wrong direction. This cannot be a better place for us by that silly, unreal action. We need to cure the human disease of lack-of-compassion, of de-humanizing each other, hurting each other out of fear and supposed competition. That is a much better and attainable goal. Curing all the diseases is so flawed a thought, and it shows how you are looking at the world through human eyes (for which I am sure you can be forgiven).

You mix up being able to identify diseases with being ignorant of diseases. We've effectively done away with a number of diseases, we've found therapies for a great number of them, and we've learned to prevent a lot of them. In the process of understanding diseases we've learned about different causes and more detailed differences relevant for treatment. Effectively diagnosis has become more precise. So it is to be expected that the number of diseases we can actually talk about has grown. Saying it is "a silly action" really is an amoral statement that shows lack of any understanding what medical care is about and indeed lack of any human compassion.

Think of this discussion when you or your close ones are in hospital. Sooner or later we all will become dependent on medical care. The pills you will be served as a result of years of investigations, the advanced surgery that most of us will need some day, the state of the art research and diagnosing techniques that will be able to identify problems in early stages, it will all be available to you thanks to the efforts of people that believe in medical care in this life instead of waiting for salvation in the next.

Hey,

No I am no confused. I understand that we have more diagnosable and distinguishable diseases. but I also very much mean we have literally more. Sure nobody dies from the 'bloody flux' anymore, and we have very specific types of illnesses... But I do mean there are more illnesses nowadays, mostly as a result of our modern world and lifestyle. Did people have radioactive poisoning before we dug radioactive material out of the ground? Likely a few, but not on the scale we find today. I understand what you mean, and I meant exactly what I said, and maintain my point.

Quote:Saying it is "a silly action" really is an amoral statement that shows lack of any understanding what medical care is about and indeed lack of any human compassion.

I am absolutely not amoral in any way, I feel that I understand better than yourself 'what medical care is about' and have overwhelming human compassion. Tell me how it is not silly to wish to 'cure all diseases'. Explain to me how that is not literally silly. That it is unattainable, dangerous to try for, and a waste of time. We should spend our valuable energy enjoying what we are given, not trying to stretch it too far, at the cost of quality of life. If you see the world, especially the last 150 years as a big improvement, than that is where we disagree. This is the same as the 'chemo thread'... It is a big disagreement, but please let mt reiterate that I am taking a moral stance, and it is all about compassion.

My brother was in the hospital when I wrote this. My grandfather is in the hospital right now. I hold my point. I never said I, nor do I, believe in salvation in the next life. It is possible, and so it 'the big sleep'. I just think all this medicine is unnecessary. Some is very helpful, like antibiotics, but those have their own very serious threats. My problem is unnecessary fear, and its motivation to do things not in our best interests.

And @Leo. That is the point, thank you. I maintain that you cannot tell me you are 100% sure, or that you have proof about the lack of an afterlife. So we may be both 'dead' (atheist sleeping dead) or something, anything might happen. We'll see...

Thanks,
-Pip

@Pippy:

Sorry if I offended you for mistaking you for a flaky adolescent female,it just seemed to fit. (a 60's flashback to a certain kind of young woman one would meet constantly. Often cute, often quite bright an living on another planet.You remind me off them)

I did NOT say 'a bit flaky" I said 'flaky' without qualification, as that is what I meant as an honest observation, not an intentional insult.

Really not interested in arguing points with you in detail,as you have very little credibility with me. I guess you're probably quite harmless, like that eccentric uncle everyone avoids.(in my family that's me,but more because I'm a bit of an old cunt, rather than colourful and eccentric,although I can also be those too)

Just one point: NO,we do NOT "know" for a fact what happens when we die.That may be because there is NO EVIDENCE OF ANYONE EVER COMING BACK TO TELL US.

On a personal note: Yes I've heard of Inishnee.(inis-ni),it's one of the Aran isles. I'm also Irish by ethnicity. My father's people left Clare in 1870 to come to the free colony of South Australia. My mother's people left Galway during The Hunger and went to Canada. I've visited Ireland twice.The last time was in 2000. I was over 50, and backpacked ,mainly down south. Had a ball.

(July 8, 2009 at 1:59 pm)Purple Rabbit Wrote: Those who claim intended design have the obligation to explain why this cruelty is intended in the first place. Certainly in that case the design would be an indication of evil intentions of whatever intentional designer designed it.

An indication of what? Erm, what does "evil" mean?